# Remember the "dedicated balance team" ccp promised last summer? CSM member reveals ccp \*\*\*canned it **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522 "2018-01-26T16:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/45 "2018-01-27T11:38:58Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > I’m reasonably convinced that the kind of person who wants to go into politics is usually the last kind of person who should be allowed t I go with “if someone _wants_ to be a politician, then they should _ **never** _ be allowed to be one” ---
**Author:** ![Amanari\_Talar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amanari_talar/32/49802_2.png) [@Amanari\_Talar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amanari_Talar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/46 "2018-01-27T11:45:01Z")
@Shailagh Please take time to read this. As a developer with almost two decades of experience i will explain some issues here to you. Hopefully this will benefit ccp as well. First, The most senior problem in eve right now is its population. Population is like the blood (life) force of a game. As it flows and reproduces, its healthy and successful by feeding the body. As it dies off, so does the body (the game, and the money that supports it). Eve is suffering significantly because of this reason. Its basic design of complexity that the current population supports, is in the end becoming its down fall. The massive battles this game has taken and ran with is a poison that is slowly killing the game, and i fear its beyond the point of cure with out a change that itself would kill the game. When we talk about these things, we start to understand why it is ccp is making only 80 million (ish) a year on a game that has dominated the genre in the industry for two decades (almost). You want to talk about balance? Do you have any idea how incredibly complex this topic is? Let me explain to you in detail some of the effects that came from balance. Lets say ishtars are op. We know it and we nerf it. the return result is that ishtars are no longer op, and as a result, something else has taken its place. The truth is, that something will always be op as long as numbers are involved. Dont like that? The only way to fix it would be to include modules on ships in eve, and manually balance them and make it so the modules cannot be changed. Eve with dramatic changes like this which would significantly down play complexity and upscale balance are subject to the same issue, which is the cause of all of the issues of balance. Do you think that perfect balance can be accomplished? If you do, your wrong. In fact, Balance in a game interestingly often comes from lots of things being unbalanced. This is known as chaotic design, which is the idea that if you keep adding lots of unique things which are op at something, eventually it balances out, and it does to a great deal. The problem is not if we can balance the game. The problem is you players. When we fix something, you break it.If you don’t break it, you elevate something above another. And so understanding all of these things really helps you understand why its hard to balance. It takes time to accomplish these things because of money, and since the income of a game is dependent upon population, the speed at which balance is accomplished is related to population. Since eve’s population is low, it does not generate a lot. as a result, not many are working on the issue. Then that is slowed down because of the demand of content, the need to keep people interested in the game (better playing and unhappy then not playing from a business perspective). And so, the issues start to pile up. Actually, you might be suprised to know a few things about this. 1. The lead (Ccp seagull) has more power then your let on to believe. 2. Often that power is over turned by higher ups (ceo, investors, etc). 3. Often that person does not agree with your position based on feedback, and or metric data. as a professional in the industry, i can fix eve. I could populate this game with changes that would bring about mass influxes of players, and i can guarantee that based on equations. In all that knowledge, I still do not have the power to change it, but i recognize the issues. In my professional opinion, the lead designer should be fired, along with the ceo. People from out side of the country needs to be hired. People that are not part of the individuals with the mindset hat “pvers should be forced to pvp” (btw i only pvp in eve). People with the mind set that “Big battles are good”, or “Multiboxing is good” because the truth is that these sorts of things are what are really destroying this game. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/47 "2018-01-27T12:13:35Z")
What are they? Never saw any announcements about it. Please don’t tell me they went through with the stupid \*\*\* assault damage control unit. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/48 "2018-01-27T12:28:53Z")
Remember kids: niche games kill themselves. Everyone should homogenize at all times! ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/49 "2018-01-27T12:36:39Z")
CCP’s failure to expand EVE into the larger, juicier niche of PvE weekend warriors with Incarna or any alternaitve to Incarna that wasn’t “let’s dig our niche deeper” will be the ultimate reason why EVE died. During 2012 and 2013 CCP had a chance to get things right about their game, the players playing it, reading the past and speculating the future, but they failed. Now instead of expanding in two or three healthy niches, EVE is rotting in a niche nobdy wants nor cares about. EVE is uncontested because its crown is a crown made of crap. “Yeah, you can put 6,000 players together in a battle and then the server buckles and dies, but, is the game fun?” ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/50 "2018-01-27T12:43:54Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Remember kids: **PvP** games kill themselves. Everyone should **diversify** at all times! FYP, now it’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/51 "2018-01-27T12:46:30Z")
Nope. PvE only doesnt mean diversification. But sure why ever appeal to a small amount of people? Money is more important than all things, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/52 "2018-01-27T12:49:38Z")
> [@Amanari\_Talar](#): > > The problem is not if we can balance the game. That is only partly true. While players indeed take every opportunity that presents itself to the extreme, it is CCP’s problem for deliberately introducing overpowered and unbalanced ships (in particular) although many people have told CCP that they are OP and would obsolete other ship classes. CCP and the players knew that T3D were OP the moment they were announced, it was clear that they would eclipse the AF and even HAC. And CCP released these ships anyway because CCP follows the new mentality of “Give them some fun toys for a time, we adjust it later and who cares about months/years of rage”. > [@Amanari\_Talar](#): > > as a professional in the industry, i can fix eve. 🙄 > [@Amanari\_Talar](#): > > Lets say ishtars are op. We know it and we nerf it. the return result is that ishtars are no longer op, and as a result, something else has taken its place. The truth is, that something will always be op as long as numbers are involved. After the Ishtar was nerfed back into manageable proportions, nothing really stood out any more. T3C were still “the best”, but you could fight them with HAC or even BC fleets. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/53 "2018-01-27T12:59:19Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > The last year has been poor decision after poor decision. The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum. :psyccp: \*The last 5 years ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/54 "2018-01-27T13:06:08Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > The last year has been poor decision after poor decision. The lunatics have finally taken over the asylum. :psyccp: I don’t think that’s quite how that analogy works. 🙂 The players would be the “lunatics”, if they listened to all of our ideas, then it would be a case of the lunatics taking over the asylum. The devs are the doctors, and still the doctors. In this case maybe they have lost their minds, or they are bad doctors. But that isn’t what the phrase means. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/55 "2018-01-27T13:55:43Z")
Paternity leave is also a thing in Iceland [http://www.mcc.is/english/family/maternity--paternity-leave-/](http://www.mcc.is/english/family/maternity--paternity-leave-/) This is a REALLY weird tangent for a conversation about balance to take btw. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/56 "2018-01-27T14:13:48Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > This is a REALLY weird tangent for a conversation about balance to take btw Maybe, but **IS** Seagull’s leave of absence contributing to the poor decision making that seems to be going on over the last year? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/57 "2018-01-27T14:16:25Z")
She is not masculine enough I think. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/58 "2018-01-27T14:23:05Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > This is a REALLY weird tangent for a conversation about balance to take btw. Think yourself lucky we were smart enough to step away from a RL politics discussion 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/59 "2018-01-27T14:26:53Z")
> [@The\_Judge](#): > > I said this in the meeting where the CSM was promosed a balance team, and I’ll say it here. “I really hope this isn’t a plan to calm the playerbase down and then not do anything with this team once the news cycle changes to something else to be mad about”. Let’s just say I wasn’t surprised. This. I was really sceptical about CCP actions lately. Anybody remember last year Vegas and Hilmar speach? It was not for the the players, it was for investors. Few weeks later CCP shut down VR part of company and firing community team. In community driven MMO? Any chance to see summit minutes soon? Year did not start well for CCP and I don’t see anything on the horizon worth staying or waiting for. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/60 "2018-01-27T14:51:47Z")
I didn’t said “PvE only”. But, accidentally, that’s how Ultima Online turned 20 years in 2017, thx to devoted PvE players (the only kind of players they still have). As for appealing to a small amount of people, that’s fine as long as they pay for the privilege. Because without money, there are no luxuries such as videogames. And in a business model where your money is as good as mine, appealing to you and shafting me is not a good idea. Not at all. CCP made everything to make up their numbers for a sell in 2017. The sell never came and probably their 2017 financial report will be a funny thing to behold if you’re into grim humour. But then, one can just develop videogames out of the good will of a small amount of people willing to pay extra, right? ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/61 "2018-01-27T14:57:12Z")
But she is (or was) onto big bikes! She owed a 850 cc sports motorbike at one point! 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/62 "2018-01-27T15:05:13Z")
You mustve loved quicktime games. Press X not to die and constant acheivement pats on the back for acheiving nothing. Once you are done here, you going to go wherever people who like to think in games have gone and ruin their fun too? Except you wont because theres none left If you cant enjoy it no one else can, right? Well done. Youve made games like modern movies; boring, dry and all the same. > [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > appealing to you and shafting me is not a good idea. Oh ok when its you being pleased its fine. When its the original customer base, ■■■■ em, right? ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/63 "2018-01-27T15:07:43Z")
Straw man anyone? No, more like this… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/7/878e33880343be0d347aa57d6785b98ba66d9372.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/64 "2018-01-27T15:09:25Z")
See, its not a strawman when its actually happening. But sure, its not like a bunch of new people came along, whined about things until they got nerfed and changed is it… Oh wait. Thats exactly whats happening. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=4)