# Remove learning implants **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 12, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586 "2018-08-12T19:12:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/1 "2018-08-12T19:12:14Z")
If I think about what currently keeps me from exploring all that Eve has to offer, then it boils down to one problem: if I fly into dangerous space, I risk my implants. If I however jump into a clone without implants I drastically lower my learning speed. So I sit in high-sec and wait for all those skills I want to learn to complete so I can finally play the game, which is: never. Removing learning implants all together (and give players a permanent +5 skill buff instead) would make it easier for people to move away from high-sec, as the risk in form of the ship you bring is easier to calculate, and yet you do not loose anything from reducing the price-tag on your kill-mail. Effectively currently leaving high-sec means you need to spend X skill points to do so, which isn’t very appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/2 "2018-08-12T20:08:46Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > If I think about what currently keeps me from exploring all that Eve has to offer, then it boils down to one problem: It boils down to you wanting faster gratification. I have not used attribute implants in years in my PVP characters and have been training just fine. You want the implants. It is your fault for putting them in your head and you hold yourself back. Deal with your own incapacity to live without them. ---
**Author:** ![Jadek\_Kin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jadek_kin/32/331616_2.png) [@Jadek\_Kin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jadek_Kin)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/3 "2018-08-12T20:08:50Z")
There’s no delay on swapping out your training clone in an Upwell structure with a standup clone bay. Swap out, undock, make your money for injectors, dock up, swap back to training clone before you log out ---
**Author:** ![Lukett\_MyDabb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lukett_mydabb/32/14034_2.png) [@Lukett\_MyDabb](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lukett_MyDabb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/4 "2018-08-12T20:18:02Z")
how cheap is a normal implant anyway? just use cheap implants. don’t stuff your head with t2 uberplants if you can’t afford to lose them. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/5 "2018-08-12T20:21:53Z")
> [@Jadek\_Kin](#): > > There’s no delay on swapping out your training clone in an Upwell structure with a standup clone bay. Upwell structures are great for short-term things like sudden PvP, but if you want to do some longer term exploration i.E. and you probably won’t even come back to K-space anytime soon, then upwell structures are not going to fix the issue. > [@Lukett\_MyDabb](#): > > how cheap is a normal implant anyway? just use cheap implants. don’t stuff your head with t2 uberplants if you can’t afford to lose them. It is not about the pricetag of the implant, it is about how much more expensive they make your ship. If you fly a 50m covert ops, that means with implants this ship is now worth 200m. And if you use cheaper implants you are back at the issue that you effectively need to sacrifice skill points to enter low/null sec. ---
**Author:** ![Lukett\_MyDabb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lukett_mydabb/32/14034_2.png) [@Lukett\_MyDabb](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lukett_MyDabb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/6 "2018-08-12T20:28:04Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > It is not about the pricetag of the implant, it is about how much more expensive they make your ship. if money is no object i fail to see your argument. the reason people get hyped about implants is knowing that person might not have been able to re-afford them. ie, the golden rule. and it may suck that you loose these implants , but the science behind ripping them out causing them to be destroyed is just one of those savage eve things. ---
**Author:** ![Jadek\_Kin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jadek_kin/32/331616_2.png) [@Jadek\_Kin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jadek_Kin)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/7 "2018-08-12T20:40:33Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Deal with your own incapacity to live without them. Basically /thread Supplement with injectors and/or accelerators or come to terms with not being able to min max 24/7. The vast majority of people do. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/8 "2018-08-12T20:42:03Z")
> [@Lukett\_MyDabb](#): > > if money is no object i fail to see your argument. the reason people get hyped about implants is knowing that person might not have been able to re-afford them. ie, the golden rule. Money is always a problem. Implants that boost certain PvP-related values are optional, and if you dare to bring that boost into PvP there has to be the risk to loose it. The big problem is that learning implants are not optional, they are more or less mandatory. > [@Jadek\_Kin](#): > > The vast majority of people do. The vast majority of people I know in Eve don’t leave high-sec because of their valuable implants. But they should. You cannot change all people, however you can change a flawed system that makes them stay in high. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/9 "2018-08-12T20:46:01Z")
Also… > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Deal with your own incapacity to live without them. You guys understand the concept of a suggestion forum, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jadek\_Kin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jadek_kin/32/331616_2.png) [@Jadek\_Kin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jadek_Kin)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/10 "2018-08-12T20:46:29Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > more or less mandatory. For whom? Players over 80 million SP? ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/11 "2018-08-12T20:47:41Z")
> [@Jadek\_Kin](#): > > For whom? Players over 80 million SP? Anyone who wants to learn skills basically. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/12 "2018-08-12T20:57:27Z")
Sorry. This is a meaningful choices thing. Training Implants are purely optional. You don’t need them to do anything but train faster. That comes at a cost of what else you might put in that slot, or the cost of just losing them, and considering you can get level 4’s just by running missions… Eh. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/13 "2018-08-12T21:01:26Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > Training Implants are purely optional. You don’t need them to do anything but train faster And those training points can be directly returned as ISK. If I would just not use training implants yet want to learn at the same rate as everyone else, I had to pay about 0.7 to 1.5b per month for skill injectors. Just to put a price tag on them. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/14 "2018-08-12T21:04:12Z")
So your compliant is you have to risk ISK to make ISK? ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/15 "2018-08-12T21:06:09Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > So your compliant is you have to risk ISK to make ISK? Now we are getting closer to the issue. If I am scared of loosing ISK because I leave my safe space, I can always use a cheap ship. But the learning implants make my death stupidly expensive, and if I don’t use learning implants, I also loose a lot of skill points aka money. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/16 "2018-08-12T21:06:23Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > yet want to learn at the same rate as everyone else It’s a popular choice, but that’s hardly an excuse to make it universal. In fact, you can follow through on the OP without affecting anyone else at all, just take them out and pretend they don’t exist. Now you don’t have to worry about them. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/17 "2018-08-12T21:07:27Z")
> [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > just take them out and pretend they don’t exist. Now you don’t have to worry about them. Ok now convince the entire rest of high-sec care-bears and the problem is solved! … or realistically: remove learning implants. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/18 "2018-08-12T21:12:03Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Ok now convince the entire rest of high-sec care-bares and the problem is solved! > > … or realistically: remove learning implants. Why? It’s a meaningful choice because it has real consequences. A great many people go without learning implants and instead PvP with much more expensive implants in their head. It’s a choice they make for the performance benefits. You want training speed, put them in. You get a massive discount on the price for backing down a level, with a fairly small impact to total training time, so maybe limit your risk by limiting your reward? Why should every other player in the game be denied that choice, just because you find it onerous? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Voidstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_voidstar/32/280496_2.png) [@Mike\_Voidstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Voidstar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/19 "2018-08-12T21:13:29Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > … or realistically: remove learning implants. Even better, remove skill injectors and stop making the game pay to win. Now several problems are solved. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586/20 "2018-08-12T21:13:43Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > . If you fly a 50m covert ops, that means with implants this ship is now worth 200m +4 implants cost 20-25 million each. Most people fly vanilla clones in nullsec and jspace, but if you are concerned about losing a clone in a bubble, then fit 2 +4s and you still aren’t risking much. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-learning-implants/97586.md?page=2)