# Response to Gallente Federation intervention in Caldari State affairs **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167 "2020-01-17T05:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/61 "2020-01-24T00:39:36Z")
I shall be honest, I am unfamilliar myself with the system of democracy due to my Amarr origins. However, I must say context does matter, what kind of events and circumstances would have led to such nigh genocidal decision? Democracy means “reign” by the people. All rulers who reign must be responsible of the power they wield. Such communities which practice open evils makes the nation a evil one. And once they lose, the people are to blame. Besides, I am not fighting for democracy, but true sociological freedom. If such evil decision was made by a democratic process of voting, they turned that entire community into a tyrant deserving purge. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/62 "2020-01-24T00:41:40Z")
> [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > I am not fighting for democracy, but true sociological freedom. Via what method? Any form of government is going to limit agency to _some_ degree. Or are you just an anarchist? > [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > However, I must say context does matter, what kind of events and circumstances would have led to such nigh genocidal decision? Generally, Pol likes killing Amarr. I think if you put 80 of him and 20 of Aldrith in a room, the ‘vote’ would take the form of a drunken shout along the lines of ‘OI! There’s twenny freakin’ Aldriths in 'ere! LE’S KILL ‘EM!’ ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/63 "2020-01-24T00:41:45Z")
> [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > May the Matari forgive me for my lineage. That is probably the most disgraceful line of text I have ever had the displeasure of laying my eyes on. I’ll thank you never to do that again. ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/64 "2020-01-24T00:43:15Z")
Such was not my intention, I apologize if I may offended you. Please explain, in what ways was this disgraceful? ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/65 "2020-01-24T00:43:57Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Generally, Pol likes killing Amarr. I think if you put 80 of him and 20 of Aldrith in a room, the ‘vote’ would take the form of a drunken shout along the lines of ‘OI! There’s twenny freakin’ Aldriths in 'ere! LE’S KILL ‘EM!’ To be fair, anyone would say that, its Aldrith… 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/66 "2020-01-24T00:43:57Z")
Anarchists? You mean denying all authority? Hmm… Yes, I think I like that word, a lot. As long as it means I do not prey upon the weak and oppressed, I will proudly declare myself as one. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/67 "2020-01-24T00:44:37Z")
> [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > My enemy is very concept of oppression, not else. > Tyranny by system, by Amarr and Sansha. > Tyranny by force, by the Cartel, Caldari, and Code. > Both breed of tyrants deserve one fate and one fate alone, the guillotine. Okay, so … you’d represent Tyranny by Impossible Dream? I’m being a little flippant, but I’m actually serious. What you’re after seems unlikely ever to exist, and you seem pretty enthusiastic about finding reasons to wipe literally everybody out along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/68 "2020-01-24T00:45:47Z")
Idealism is a beacon, not a station. Even if it is impossible, I shall continue to strive to achieve so. As for the killing part, it is always important to discern who is truly responsible for the evils present. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/69 "2020-01-24T00:48:20Z")
One should never apologize for their heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/70 "2020-01-24T00:50:28Z")
…True, it is a serious, grave mistake I have done indeed! I apologize. My guilt for my people’s sins aside, it does not mean I need to accept the same bigotry myself. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/71 "2020-01-24T00:52:06Z")
> [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > Anarchists? > You mean denying all authority? > Hmm… > Yes, I think I like that word, a lot. > As long as it means I do not prey upon the weak and oppressed, I will proudly declare myself as one. It doesn’t. Generally speaking, there’s no system of societal order that inherently rules that out. Any system, even ‘no rules at all’ (ie: anarchy) can be gamed. An anarchist, for example, can say ‘there is no law preventing me from killing you and taking everything you own’… and be right, in an anarchic society. And that’s what ‘true sociological freedom’ is: if everyone has absolute agency, then Pol, by virtue of having the capacity to kill Aldrith, has the legal standing to do it, too. So absolute agency ends up becoming tyranny of the strong, and the ruthless: the only thing stopping vicious people from doing horrible things… is people _stopping_ them. Most people are not inclined to oppose violent, aggressive people—that requires _being_ violent, in some capacity. Rather, they are inclined to attempt to submit and appease, in order to avoid violence. So the weak submit to the strong, and pretty quickly, you no longer have true social freedom, but rather, warlordism. ---
**Author:** ![Octavech\_Raholan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octavech_raholan/32/373797_2.png) [@Octavech\_Raholan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octavech_Raholan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/72 "2020-01-24T00:57:30Z")
The word anarchist itself was foreign too me, but what I hear from your description sounds more like chaos rather than anarchy. I do not want all order to vanish, but I desire the kind of order that functions not to represent the interests of the powerful and wealthy, but to protect the weak from others. And the strong, the rulers, the administrators will exist to serve the weak, not rule over them. Such impossible state might be impossible, but that does not mean that rhe attempt for it has too be stopped. As long as my march leads to assisting one more victims of tyranny, I will continue. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/73 "2020-01-24T01:08:26Z")
> [@Octavech\_Raholan](#): > > I do not want all order to vanish, but I desire the kind of order that functions not to represent tje interests of the powerful and wealthy, but to protect the weak from others. Generally, that sort of social order requires a consistent, widespread commitment to those goals, and the sort of societal emphasis on passing down those values that sustains that. There are, so far as I can tell, two basic structures in the Cluster’s nations meant to serve that purpose. The newer one, if you will, is the structure of the Tribal Republic. The Chiefs are answerable to their Tribes, and each Tribe is structured internally in a way that the Clans, Circles, and people of that Tribe have decided best provides them with strong, dedicated leadership that they can trust. The other is the Caldari State’s megacorporate structure. In essence, the purpose of the Megas _is not profit_. The purpose of the Megas is to care for their people—to provide focus, direction, and cohesion to the citizen-employees of the Megacorporation, and bring them together in common cause so that their combined efforts can provide them with food, shelter, and everything else they need in life. Megacorporate leadership’s job is to lead in a way that they believe best serves the larger needs and long-term goals of their citizen-employees, and between them, those of the Caldari people as a whole. Obviously, neither of these systems is perfect, and people being fallible, there are situations where things break down and the system is not as responsive as it should be. Sometimes, even, people of dishonorable intent seize the reins of power… but such times are not what these systems were intended to provide, and even then, the misguided leaders likely _believe_ they are still acting in the best interests of their people. Compare that to your knowledge of the Empire, where the purpose of the hierarchy is service to top. A case can be made that service to the hierarchy is service to a benevolent deity, and thus, it _is_ service to the greater needs of the populace… but that’s at best a distant and many-layered abstraction that doesn’t apply to the vast majority of daily life. And the Federation… well. Constant incessent bickering and squabbling gets nothing done. Just look at the IGS. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/74 "2020-01-24T01:16:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > ‘no rules at all’ (ie: anarchy) Anomie is not the same as Anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/75 "2020-01-24T01:19:44Z")
No, it’s not. One is the absence of moral standards in a population. The other is the lack of an authority. ‘True sociological freedom’ doesn’t require a lack of moral standards, and moral standards are not _rules_. They’re just standards. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/76 "2020-01-24T01:31:22Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, it’s not. One is the absence of moral standards in a population. The other is the lack of an authority. ‘True sociological freedom’ doesn’t require a lack of moral standards, and moral standards are not _rules_ . They’re just standards. The words here are on a thin line. Rule/Standards Authority/Leader. A guide written in sand at a beach and a guide written in stone can recieve different words for them when the variable is the ammount of time they are available. You can have on the fly consensus based decisions beign taken and certain actions with one leader in a moment and another in a different time, not a specific person in charge of something. Just because it has a form and function does not mean it will be stuck this way for the foreseeable future. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The newer one, if you will, is the structure of the Tribal Republic. The Chiefs are answerable to their Tribes, and each Tribe is structured internally in a way that the Clans, Circles, and people of that Tribe have decided best provides them with strong, dedicated leadership that they can trust. How is the process of choosing and changing the leaders? Different tribes have different costumes or is it a more or less similar process? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/77 "2020-01-24T01:33:55Z")
Each Tribe can choose their Chief in the manner they feel best suits them. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/78 "2020-01-24T01:36:37Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167/79 "2020-04-23T01:48:37Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/response-to-gallente-federation-intervention-in-caldari-state-affairs/212167.md?page=3)