# Rewards of democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115 "2022-06-07T12:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ZY123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zy123/32/327374_2.png) [@ZY123](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZY123)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/42 "2022-06-10T11:15:39Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > a system of **government** by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. Absolutely, which is why it’s not fair to say that we elect people to “govern” in this case. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > For most people, democracy is when they are asked to vote for a representative. Not everyone graduated political/social sciences. So it’s fair use to call it democracy. I guess as long as the misuse of a word is popular enough, it’s fine to misuse it. If everyone else does it then it’s ok, right? Screw useless crap like history or etymology. _Wait what’s doublespeak?_ The problem is that this sort of shift of definitions through misuse isn’t an evolution of language but a devolution. People end up conflating things they dont understand and hey, new synonyms occur through said ignorance. Honestly after I looked into all this stuff I ended up with newfound respect for the way France and Iceland treat their languages. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > One of the benefits of language is that words can have multiple meanings and those meanings can even change over time. The _primary_ benefit of language is that we can agree on what things mean. As we learn about more things, we come up with new words for them and language consequently develops with understanding. Synonyms through ignorance is not development through understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/43 "2022-06-10T12:36:20Z")
> [@ZY123](#): > > Absolutely, which is why it’s not fair to say that we elect people to “govern” in this case. Depends on your interpretation, although the CSM cannot decree, their fonction is close to one of the functions of The king of Belgium. “A facet of the King’s role consists of the work he does on a daily basis when mediating with ministers on behalf of private citizens who appeal to him to redress wrongs they have suffered at the hands of the political and administrative system.” source: [The political role of the King | Belgium.be](https://www.belgium.be/en/about_belgium/government/federal_authorities/king/political_role) Should I address Brisc Rubal now as “His Majesty, King Rubal”? > [@ZY123](#): > > I guess as long as the misuse of a word is popular enough, it’s fine to misuse it. If everyone else does it then it’s ok, right? Screw useless crap like history or etymology. _Wait what’s doublespeak?_ > > The problem is that this sort of shift of definitions through misuse isn’t an evolution of language but a devolution. The alteration of meaning occurs **because words are constantly used and what is intended by speakers is not exactly the same each time**. If a different intention for a word is shared by the speech community and becomes established in usage then a semantic change has occurred. Everyone is free to use language, in this case CCP, an Icelandic company posted about democracy, which in their definition is “Lýðræði er vítt hugtak yfir þær stjórnmálastefnur sem byggja á þátttöku almennings í ákvörðunum er hann varðar.”. So I think what we got here is a societal difference thus a different interpretation of definition. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/44 "2022-06-10T13:33:51Z")
Good way to get banned. ---
**Author:** ![ZY123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zy123/32/327374_2.png) [@ZY123](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZY123)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/45 "2022-06-10T14:14:20Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Should I address Brisc Rubal now as “His Majesty, King Rubal”? What makes you think you’re electing an authority? > [@Aedaxus](#): > > The alteration of meaning occurs **because words are constantly used and what is intended by speakers is not exactly the same each time**. I’ve already laid out the argument against it, i.e. that the driving force behind that is mostly ignorance, i.e. misuse, or it’s any developments that warrant new or refined terminology (like “elementary particles” referring to the smallest ■■■■ we’ve gotten to). So far I’ve gotten these two arguments: 1: > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > One of the benefits of language is that words can have multiple meanings and those meanings can even change over time. 2: > [@Aedaxus](#): > > The alteration of meaning occurs **because words are constantly used and what is intended by speakers is not exactly the same each time**. If a different intention for a word is shared by the speech community and becomes established in usage then a semantic change has occurred. Like, alright, fine. Languages change. I’m not saying “languages don’t change”. I’m saying “the direction for the change isn’t always for the better”. The very example you use appeals to misuse. Do you at least understand what harm I see in the shift of a term as central to the developed world as “democracy”? _Democracy this, democracy that, fight for democracy, die for democracy, everyone has a right to democracy_ Which ■■■■■■■ democracy? The ideal one, the ones before, or the one we settled with currently? Anyone preaching it can just ride the connotation and when faced with scrutiny fall back on technicalities. _Technically_ Russia is democratic. I disagree with acknowledging and normalizing the shift from “power to the people” to “at least those who govern listen to the people with no obligation to act accordingly”, and I disagree with this kind of stuff happening being justified by people not thinking about how they talk and just blindly accept changes. I’ve seen enough definitions change to affect the perception of the norm which is why I per principle preach not going with the flow. This is for the record why I came to respect the idea of Académie Française (though theyre as infallable as I’m french, but I like the idea). I say any such shifts warrant scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/46 "2022-06-10T15:08:12Z")
> [@ZY123](#): > > I’m not saying “languages don’t change”. I’m saying “the direction for the change isn’t always for the better”. The very example you use appeals to misuse. it’s not “misuse” to equate ‘democracy’ with ‘voting.’ It’s a fundamental aspect of modern democratic systems that they provide voting opportunities. Anything else is being ridiculously pedantic. Everybody knows what CCP means when they talk about democracy and the CSM. Enjoy the login reward and don’t flip out. ---
**Author:** ![ZY123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zy123/32/327374_2.png) [@ZY123](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZY123)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/47 "2022-06-10T15:30:44Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > it’s not “misuse” to equate ‘democracy’ with ‘voting.’ It literally is, cause the end result is people thinking: “[democracy is a right](https://www.ohchr.org/en/about-democracy-and-human-rights)” + “democracy is about voting, not forms of government” → “as long as I can vote, it’s democracy” I mean, you call this entire cockslapalooza “democratic” when neither of us hold any semblance of power. I mean, I don’t expect anyone here to do so. We’re customers, not investors, shareholderes, or whatever. ZY123 is not a citizen with rights recognized by the UN or someshit. ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/48 "2022-06-10T15:31:23Z")
The authority here is the ISD, this is not reddit, the agenda in there is CHAOS not the Null Sec agenda. Every single medium intelligent person can deduce what CSM is about, it was already posted and I respect ZY123 for having the courage for being so explicit. I don’t care, but I don’t need to open the game client and receive spit in my face, you guys have your Reddit and CCP ears, what do you need? Some small percentage of newbies throwing votes your way to help because your blocks are tied? Also good luck with that. I’m not here to be pedantic, and it’s not my fault people are rioting, I found it funny the level of cynicism used by CCP, like we all are stupid and CSM is something new. Please, at least a little respect. Do as you like, just don’t spit in my face, thank you. Again, the riot is CCP doing not mine, I don’t have that kind of powah. For all that I care keep ruling the game in your NS space, crashing the server, renting space and all the other “good stuff”, including your very cool wars, just let me have my L4s and my forum fun. Cheers. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Skyla\_Amarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skyla_amarr/32/392813_2.png) [@Skyla\_Amarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skyla_Amarr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/49 "2022-06-10T15:36:42Z")
I may or may not disagree with stuff, but the way ully loom presents itself even after unsubbing and quitting… Can that snowflake people just be banned from the forums? It’s boring and proof how people can stack utter sht real high as if it even makes a point. It’s just a waste of space. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/50 "2022-06-10T16:07:10Z")
There is a block function if you don’t like seeing someone posting, wait no, no there isn’t unlucky for you. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/51 "2022-06-10T19:05:37Z")
They can ignore them so they cant see any content in their posts ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/52 "2022-06-10T19:08:39Z")
Dude I thought it was impossible, you just made my forums experience 3x better, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/53 "2022-06-10T19:32:26Z")
> [@ZY123](#): > > I mean, you call this entire cockslapalooza “democratic” when neither of us hold any semblance of power. I mean, I don’t expect anyone here to do so. We’re customers, not investors, shareholderes, or whatever. ZY123 is not a citizen with rights recognized by the UN or someshit. Depends on the definition of power, doesn’t it? Access to the decision makers is often viewed as a soft form of power. > [@Adm\_Malkaviano](#): > > Do as you like, just don’t spit in my face, thank you. Again, the riot is CCP doing not mine, I don’t have that kind of powah. TIL getting free stuff is having someone spit in your face. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/54 "2022-06-10T19:34:22Z")
What do we call a system of elective representation in which votes can be purchased for about $15 per piece? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/55 "2022-06-10T19:35:56Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > What do we call a system of elective representation in which votes can be purchased for about $15 per piece It’s called a ‘poll tax.’ ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/56 "2022-06-10T19:39:19Z")
Highsec Citizens of New Eden must pay Queen Regent of Highsec a small fee of 10million Isk to have the privilege to voting in the current election. ---
**Author:** ![Ully\_Loom](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ully_loom/32/501057_2.png) [@Ully\_Loom](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ully_Loom)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/57 "2022-06-10T20:09:39Z")
Or pay nothing at all by simply not participating in this umpteenth royalist masquerade… CSM is useless. If you want to move the lines within the CCP, you will have to do otherwise… ---
**Author:** ![ZY123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zy123/32/327374_2.png) [@ZY123](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZY123)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/58 "2022-06-10T20:21:33Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Depends on the definition of power, doesn’t it? Access to the decision makers is often viewed as a soft form of power. The same definition you have in mind as when you call someone or something powerful, or when something holds or someone possesses or is granted power. You’re not granted power, nor do you have any more of it than anyone else with a voice; you’re granted the privilege of being heard. Access to decision makers is viewed as power by people who confuse those two. The collective customer base has the power to vote with their wallet. The collective playerbase has the privilege of voting with their accounts. Do you understand the nuance between the two, i.e. the difference between power and and privilege, or would you like me to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/59 "2022-06-10T20:30:26Z")
> [@ZY123](#): > > The same definition you have in mind as when you call someone or something powerful, or when something holds or someone possesses or is granted power. You’re not granted power, nor do you have any more of it than anyone else with a voice; you’re granted the privilege of being heard. Access to decision makers is viewed as power by people who confuse those two. This has not been my experience, either as a CSM member or in real life. There is real power in positions with access and influence. With enough of both, you are able to enact change and direct outcomes, and billions of dollars are exchanged annually by people to get access to both. > [@ZY123](#): > > Do you understand the nuance between the two, i.e. the difference between power and and privilege, or would you like me to elaborate? No thanks, I’m pretty sure my lifetime of education and experience in this realm would not be broadened by someone mansplaining a pendantic distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/60 "2022-06-10T20:34:49Z")
> [@ZY123](#): > > Do you understand the nuance between the two, i.e. the difference between power and and privilege, or would you like me to elaborate? You _do_ realise Brisc is a RL politician and lobbyist, right? He doesn’t only understand it better than you, he **lives** it and he’ll also virtually murder you with his word pvp. ---
**Author:** ![ZY123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zy123/32/327374_2.png) [@ZY123](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ZY123)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115/61 "2022-06-10T20:44:47Z")
Bold of you to assume my gender. I’m not saying power and privilege are mutually exclusive. You can be granted the privilege of power. This here isn’t it because any sort of power is still held by the people you _think_ you have the power to influence. Compare this to a power and a privilege of a government official. He’d have the power to start a war, but maybe not the power to finish it in a certain manner. Compare it to a low fraction shareholder who has the privilege of influencing a business but not quite enough to have any semblance of power. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > lifetime of education and experience Maybe after a lifetime of education and experience you could tell the difference between power and the illusion of power. “It’s democratic as long as we can vote”… jesus christ. I don’t have the power to change your mind. I just have the privilege to try cause I’m in this forum. Maybe I could change your mind with a threat of force or a large enough bribe, but you could be an idealist. There’s a nuance for you. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rewards-of-democracy/366115.md?page=4)