# Risk vs Reward ninja mining **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [September 8, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434 "2019-09-08T00:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/201 "2019-09-09T20:25:21Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But doesn’t the op also have a vested interest? It’s not vested. It’s very explicit. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Ccp will have an idea of what amounts of fracking should be happening and who should be doing it. And we can speculate as to what that may be and summise about the current situation: ‘this seems fine’ or ‘somethings broken’. The first sentence is wrong. We don’t know, maybe they do, maybe they don’t. You claim they do without any evidence of it. So you making off-topic judgements based on personal speculation over something that may as well not exist is… absurd ? Ironic ? Clearly, your posts look like “as long as Eve is running, there is no problem”. That’s delusional. You are covering your eyes. When your friends will have less people playing for a moment, and will not be able to bump the ninja harvesters in their orcas, they won’t complain. They will just offline the structure and silently stop. And later when people will come back they will just realize that it’s not worth to set up the moon again. But yeah, there will still be “no issue”. Because you don’t want to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Complex\_Math](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/complex_math/32/378387_2.png) [@Complex\_Math](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Complex_Math)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/202 "2019-09-09T20:26:42Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > The issue is knowing what is the correct amount of building to be happening in hi-sec vs low-sec. This is a fair point. At the end of the day, CCP will decide what changes to implement (if any). I’ve stated my position, and I’m satisfied with my wording, but if I’m wrong- then I guess I’ll find out in a future patch release. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/203 "2019-09-09T20:35:24Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It’s not vested. It’s very explicit. You have strange definitions. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The first sentence is wrong. We don’t know, maybe they do, maybe they don’t. You claim they do without any evidence of it. They will even if only subconsciously. When they released ‘industry teams’ they found out that hardly anyone used them and removed the feature. Now that doesn’t mean they had a ballpark number of usage they were expecting/aiming for. But there comes a point where a features use or lack of becomes evidence that there is a problem. Another example is drones. A little while back ccp looked at how weapons were used by players. They found that drones were very common and missiles were less common. Even though they probably didn’t have an official exact or maybe even not a ball park number for how often these weapons should be used, they reasoned that the under use of one weapon and over use of the other suggested there was an imbalance. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Clearly, your posts look like “as long as Eve is running, there is no problem”. That’s delusional. You are covering your eyes. This is correct. As long as enough people play eve, the game is fine. That doesn’t mean it couldn’t be better. But as long as a certain threshold is met (say income\>costs) the game is fine. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And later when people will come back they will just realize that it’s not worth to set up the moon again. BINGO!! :parrotdad: ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/204 "2019-09-09T20:43:51Z")
8 system messages. 4x my post got hidden. 4x the staff restored them. Man, it’s as if someone was trying to censor me. I wonder what type of people would do such a thing! I have no idea! Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/205 "2019-09-09T20:44:56Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > This is correct. As long as enough people play eve, the game is fine. false. Devs took actions before the game died. Therefore your argument is again absurd. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > BINGO!! You again claim that there can’t possibly be an issue, because there can’t possibly be an issue. Again you are wrong, as devs took actions to fix issues in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/206 "2019-09-09T20:48:06Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > false. > Devs took actions before the game died. Therefore your argument is again absurd. Because fine =/= perfect. The devs took action in 2013 when player numbers were at their highest point. This doesn’t mean the game wasn’t fine. Just that they intended to improve it. And not all changes are an answer to something thats not fine. When they release expansions with new content like apocrypha, it doesn’t mean things are not fine. Just that they think things could be better. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/207 "2019-09-09T20:49:17Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Because fine =/= perfect. I did not write “is fine”. I wrote > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > “as long as Eve is running, there is no problem”. To which you answered that this is correct. It is not, for the reason I gave. devs literally made fixes for eg the orthrus or the VNI, because they considered something was a problem. Which means, there were problems in the game that needed to be addressed, even though the game was not dead. But even a child knows that. so you claiming there is no issue is just blinding yourself when you know you are wrong. AKA a troll. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/208 "2019-09-09T20:54:21Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > To which you answered that this is correct. It is not, for the reason I gave. Ok. It may not mean there is no problem. But it doesn’t mean the game is not fine either. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > devs literally made fixes for eg the orthrus or the VNI, because they considered something was a problem. I bet you one of the metrics used to decide there was a problem was how much they were used. The same can be applied to athanors and fracking. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/209 "2019-09-09T21:06:12Z")
At this point it should be painfully obvious that a certain someone is just here to troll and rile people up, and should not be fed or indulged. At the end of the day, as CCP Fozzy said, no one actually owns asteroids, so suspect flagging would make no sense. Corps that own Athanors under the free umbrella of CONCORD risk other people mining their ore. It’s just the cost of business in HiSec. Luckily several mechanics are in place to help them deal with ninjas: - WarDecs - Ganking - Bumping OFC, these things have been nerfed over the years at the demand of carebears, and unfortunately may not be as effective. However, the corp always has the option of timing pulls for their prime time and not pulling more than they can mine in one sitting. There’s also the fact that a couple of people mining that ore is not really a big deal. Most corps I’ve found pull way more than they can mine themselves, so the ore isn’t being “stolen”, it’s being thrown away in the despawn trashcan. Ninja miners aren’t “thieves” in this case, but enterprising individuals rescuing valuable resources from waste. Flagging = I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/210 "2019-09-09T21:11:07Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > At the end of the day, as CCP Fozzy said, no one actually owns asteroids, so suspect flagging would make no sense. No relation between the two parts. “It is how it is, so .” So NOTHING You are the one trolling by repeating that non-argument ad nauseam. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/211 "2019-09-09T21:12:54Z")
“people die of illness therefore it would make no sense to cure them”. That’s what you whole argument is about. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/212 "2019-09-09T21:14:08Z")
Isn’t that sweet, A code member went for the easy zero risk gank kills in nulsec, then scurried back to highsec as quick as his little malediction would get him there. I’m sorry but Code don’t do NulSec ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/213 "2019-09-09T21:14:28Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > But it doesn’t mean the game is not fine either. It’s unrelated. I specifically wrote “there is no problem”, you talking about the game being fine is a different topic. I did not say the game was or not fine, because it would be unrelated. The point is : there are issues in the game, you claiming that there are not until the servers shut down is a nonsense. You claiming that there are no issues with moon mining because people are still using them, is also a nonsense, just like claiming there was no issue with the orthrus because people still used other ships would be. ---
**Author:** ![baloney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baloney/32/157031_2.png) [@baloney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/baloney)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/214 "2019-09-09T21:16:20Z")
> **[DOTLAN EveMaps: Oasa - V-X0KM](https://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/V-X0KM)** > > DOTLAN EveMaps is the leading online/interactive map/alliance/corporation resource database for Eve Online > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > I’m sorry but Code don’t do NulSec You sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/215 "2019-09-09T21:19:54Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > ‘Real value’ is entirely subjective to the individual and their unique circumstances. The price of something you see on the market is not it’s real value. It is only a suggested value until it’s actually bought. “Real” usually refers to “real” goods–i.e. goods and services. So your car has a “real” value. The money you used to buy it is not “real” but nominal. Value is subjective. I don’t like acorn squash, others do. Neither they nor me are “wrong” it is just our preferences. So when you write, > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > By definition of value, it cannot be wrong. It MUST be worth it. Maybe not to everyone, but SOMEONE. This is correct. There is no “wrong value” anymore than saying I am wrong for not liking acorn squash. The price is what people agree on in terms of exchange. It has to be the case that the person selling values the good at least at the price, but probably below that price, otherwise why sell it? And at the same time the buyer almost surely values the item (or service) more than the price…again otherwise why buy it. This difference between price and value on the part of the parties to the exchange is what allows trades to take place. > [@baloney](#): > > According to whom? Yes! Value is determined by the individual. If you want to buy a car that means you value having the car more than anything else you could buy with that money. If this were not true, then why are you being foolish and buying the car and not buying the other stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/216 "2019-09-09T21:23:04Z")
Positive, show me where Code actually “hold” sov and not share it. Show me space where Code actually “use” space. Anyone, even Code can put a TCU up in space given to them by “friends”, using that space, living there and improving it are two very different things. > **[DOTLAN EveMaps: Oasa - V-X0KM](http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/V-X0KM)** > > DOTLAN EveMaps is the leading online/interactive map/alliance/corporation resource database for Eve Online ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/217 "2019-09-09T21:24:19Z")
Please keep on topic. Nobody cares about Code. Ignore them, as they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/218 "2019-09-09T21:25:17Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/2X/b/ba4f705de1ed75e93605e72301a9def42e32c2e5.gif) ](https://i.imgur.com/zkXTJG9.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/219 "2019-09-09T21:25:35Z")
this thread went of topic days ago - seemingly no-one cares about poor design in highsec ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/220 "2019-09-09T21:31:04Z")
No, it’s just that “some people” enjoy derailing threads. Don’t feed the troll, just report their posts as off-topic. And remain on-topic yourself. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434.md?page=11)