# Risk vs Reward ninja mining **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [September 8, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434 "2019-09-08T00:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/453 "2019-09-29T03:14:20Z")
I used to live in low sec for the longest time before the citadel changes. I loved it back then. Now, it almost doesn’t pay unless you’ve got the right friends, I guess. I would love to see more high-sec corps move to low-sec for some more emergent game play in that arena. There has to be a better incentive, though. As to the OP, things in high-sec like gank squads and so-called “ninja mining” in someone’s area, I’m all for it. Risk vs. reward is what this game is all about. It doesn’t go away just because you’re in high-sec. HTFU. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/454 "2019-09-29T03:36:49Z")
I try to do this to a degree, but it’s been… interesting. Variable between nobody cares and 100 capitals staring me in the face. I am more or less just an industrialist, and not a very good one at that. Fortunately I have some of the afore mentioned ‘right friends’ so I am not eradicated outright, but it is very difficult to convince people to occupy the space, and I basically just do it to be deliberately risky and hopefully generate some entertainment for someone by being so. The thing that bugs me about the highsec moon mining is that there’s very little reason to care who owns an athanor, and rather to one’s advantage not to given just how much ore there is floating about. Giving the owner some way to enforce their claim in an active way seems like a fight generator. I think suspect flags are passive, and an appeal to have someone else fix the problem who may or may not materialize. ‘Ninja Mining’ is hardly a ‘ninja’ like activity. You can do it boldly under the brightest of light while yelling at the top of your lungs and basically be immune to just about any consequence if you’ve put even a tiny bit of thought into choosing your gear. People who want to fight have no reason to. They can have everything for free anyway. The people they might be trying to provoke won’t fight. Where I live, we just end up with so much ore that stealing it has no impact, and adds to a feeling of total apathy for what people do or don’t do. I want the Athanor owner to have just enough power over ‘their’ field that they feel safe enough to directly act against another capsuleer, piss them off, and start a fight they’ll likely lose and learn from. I know there are things that can be done, but none of these things depend on control of the facility. Alternatively they could drastically reduce the amount of ore there is so that we don’t have it coming out of our ears and setting the timer is more valuable, or the fight over the ore more significant. The bottom line is that I’m dissatisfied with the near total apathy in regard to controlling this resource, and the drastically reduced scarcity of all types of minerals has given people even less reason to conflict or explore outside of highsec. I don’t know what the best fix is, but it is something I would like someone in charge to take a good look at. Here’s hoping for some chaos, I guess. I hear it’s the in thing right now. ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/455 "2019-09-29T03:58:20Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > The thing that bugs me about the highsec moon mining is that there’s very little reason to care who owns an athanor, and rather to one’s advantage not to given just how much ore there is floating about. Giving the owner some way to enforce their claim in an active way seems like a fight generator. I think suspect flags are passive, and an appeal to have someone else fix the problem who may or may not materialize. Very good point. It would be interesting to have a way to stop people a little more directly. What I generally do is try to contact people and see if they’re comfortable giving a donation of 10% or so if they mine our fields. If they don’t want to, no skin off my nose. I can’t mine all the ore by myself anyway. I invite people to come and mine. It’s public ore. > [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > I want the Athanor owner to have just enough power over ‘their’ field that they feel safe enough to directly act against another capsuleer, piss them off, and start a fight they’ll likely lose and learn from. I know there are things that can be done, but none of these things depend on control of the facility. I would like it to be something other than a war dec mechanic. Something maybe timer-based? You have free-fire capability 15 minutes or something? > [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > The bottom line is that I’m dissatisfied with the near total apathy in regard to controlling this resource, and the drastically reduced scarcity of all types of minerals has given people even less reason to conflict or explore outside of highsec. I don’t know what the best fix is, but it is something I would like someone in charge to take a good look at. Here’s hoping for some chaos, I guess. I hear it’s the in thing right now. I agree. I think the risk part could be upped a bit. The rewards are fine. Maybe a little less ore. Like I said, I usually leave some in the field specifically so others can mine it. But I’m just not greedy like that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/456 "2019-09-29T04:20:17Z")
My suggestion was a ‘bump gun’ that could be mounted to the Athanor to fling people harmlessly away from the ore, but I’m not married to the idea. I am trying to preserve the non-lethality enforced by CONCORD, give the owner a feeling of safety enough to pull the trigger and directly inconvenience someone and perhaps be bold enough to mouth off and start a fight. This seems especially important to me when you have to be a structure owner so that someone can start a fight (that doesn’t rely on ganking) with you in high security space. Any change that increases the significance of our choices and value of our actions is something I tend to be in favor of, even if it hurts my wallet a bit. I am here to play a game, and a little more or less money isn’t going to stop me. On paper, the current situation is a huge boon to me. Nearly inexhaustible minerals all over the place for me to scoop up and build with or sell, but with this ease comes that sense of apathy and grind. It’s not fun, nor interesting, and I think it could be better. I’ve hobbied in lowsec mining in preference to mining from my own athanor because it isn’t easy, but I am deliberately taking a loss in income for an excuse to engage with the game I play. ---
**Author:** ![Complex\_Math](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/complex_math/32/378387_2.png) [@Complex\_Math](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Complex_Math)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/457 "2019-09-29T05:02:39Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > My suggestion was a ‘bump gun’ that could be mounted to the Athanor to fling people harmlessly away from the ore You technically can get that “bump gun” right now- don’t forget, we are in a sandbox after all. Just hire someone to bump the ore thieves out of your belt. Barges and orcas are very slow- it takes them a while to get back to the ore. You’ll effectively reduce their isk per hour so it will become less profitable to mine in your belt uninvited. They could come back in a Venture, but if they do, they aren’t mining all that much. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/458 "2019-09-29T05:23:41Z")
I realize this, but this does not affect the value of ownership of the athanor if you have to use external means to enforce the claim, going back to ‘it does not matter who owns the athanor’. The only method at one’s disposal to control the situation granted by structure control is the timer set a week in advance, and control of this timer does not seem to spark enough interest to contest a structure owner for control of it. People can and do bash them, but the timer does not seem to be a motivating factor. To be a motivating factor, I would have to get all structure owners to hire someone to bump folks out of their field, and that seems a rather impossible task when there isn’t much motivation to conflict over nearly limitless amounts of ore anyway. This is why I want something that seems really safe at first to lower the bar where someone is willing to actually do it for the peanut reward of basically just being a butt to someone because they can. A gun on the athanor requires little to no preparation, skill, or even attention. I’m grasping at straws here, but maybe, just maybe, it would start a fight where someone cared about the outcome. Hiring a bumper would still be valuable as an escalation tactic, if you don’t make the gun on the athanor cycle fast enough to bug more than one person at a time and you have two people mooching off you that are actually at their keyboards. You’re not exactly making bank yourself if you’re manning that gun, so it seems pretty fair to me, too. Making the ore valuable enough to me that I feel the inclination to hire people to defend it would be a-ok with me, which I would prefer to do by making less of it, or perhaps, were it possible, making it much easier to mine (and therefore easier for people to ‘steal’ so they could actually hurt my income from it). I’m not picky as long as whatever solution makes people want to fight over ownership of the structure. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/459 "2019-09-29T13:42:51Z")
> [@Angus\_Thermopollye](#): > > But then I recall mining in Null Sov making 300 million ISK per Hulk load of ore. Or living in K-Space making 500 million or more every 15 minutes or so. This was in a sub-cap ship in all cases. I know we all know what a cap can make in those places. 300 million ISK per Hulk load. 2 billion ISK/hr in “K-Space” with sub-caps… yeah no. ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/460 "2019-09-29T17:45:19Z")
Then you’re not doing it right, my man. Been playing since 2003 and that’s what I pulled in when I was out there. Sorry bout your luck. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/461 "2019-09-29T17:56:11Z")
Hahaha ok bud. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/462 "2019-09-29T20:39:59Z")
> [@ITTigerClawIK](#): > > RISK: > [Getting Wrecked by the Defenders](https://youtu.be/nqATurL0lpU) This is beautiful and how it is intended. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/463 "2019-09-30T19:26:49Z")
> [@Angus\_Thermopollye](#): > > and that’s what I pulled in when I was out there That’s weak bro. I pull in 5 billion isk/hr in Perimeter selling mining permits. I don’t even fly a cap, I just use capsule. You didn’t mention why you aren’t still out there? Did you forget to pay rent? ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/464 "2019-09-30T20:04:14Z")
> [@Angus\_Thermopollye](#): > > Then you’re not doing it right, my man. Been playing since 2003 and that’s what I pulled in when I was out there. Sorry bout your luck. Very impressive, given the mathematical impossibility of doing so, but the only way you’ve ever been able to get anything like that into a hulk is after compression. On the other hand, I would have thought that losing a golem to rats in highsec would also be impossible, so you seem to be some sort of prodigy, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/465 "2019-10-01T02:09:45Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > On the other hand, I would have thought that losing a golem to rats in highsec would also be impossible, so you seem to be some sort of prodigy, I guess. If that’s the best you got, you should try harder. I remain unimpressed. 🤣 The story behind it is hilarious. I had to poop sooooooooo bad. I came back and was all, “Awwww.” Then I went and bought another. > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > Very impressive, given the mathematical impossibility of doing so, but the only way you’ve ever been able to get anything like that into a hulk is after compression. Mathematically impossible in today’s game. Not the game in 2003-2006. I’m sorry things didn’t work out for you? Would you like a hug, maybe? I’m honestly not sure where you’re going with this. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/466 "2019-10-01T02:51:53Z")
> [@Angus\_Thermopollye](#): > > Mathematically impossible in today’s game. Not the game in 2003-2006. I’m sorry things didn’t work out for you? Would you like a hug, maybe? I’m honestly not sure where you’re going with this. It wasn’t mathematically possible then, either. I’m not really sure what you’re expecting to gain by telling such a trivially disproven lie. ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/467 "2019-10-01T03:04:27Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > It wasn’t mathematically possible then, either. I’m not really sure what you’re expecting to gain by telling such a trivially disproven lie. I’m not expecting anything. You’re the one that seems on about it. I think it’s funny that it bothers you so much. I truly care very little about what you believe or don’t. Welcome to the real world where your opinion doesn’t actually matter. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/468 "2019-10-01T04:44:06Z")
Oh I get it. He tells an obvious lie, and when people question him about it he lobs abuse on them and spins their skepticism into _their_ shortcoming. You don’t believe his lie because “you’re doing it wrong”, “sorry about your bad luck”, etcetc. Textbook Cluster B troll personality. Best ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/469 "2019-10-01T08:03:50Z")
haha welcome to the real world where everyone’s opinion matters, and everything is real, even the disdain and lack of respect you earned ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/470 "2019-10-01T12:43:50Z")
Yup, you two have me all figured out. Can’t stay on topic, but you have me all figured out. Look, you two can seriously be the grand forum warriors you want to be and be right in your own heads all you want. I’m cool with that. Although, I do find it hilarious that you want to keep droning on like puppets about it. Is this what you people do? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/471 "2019-10-01T12:49:54Z")
Please tell us more about how cool you are. ---
**Author:** ![Angus\_Thermopollye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/angus_thermopollye/32/178315_2.png) [@Angus\_Thermopollye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Angus_Thermopollye)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434/472 "2019-10-14T20:10:38Z")
FYI, @Aiko_Danuja & @Xuixien, I see where the miscommunication was there. I said “K-Space” and meant “J-space.” My bad. I did make a ■■■■ ton of ISK there per hour. I don’t have actual records, though, so that is very possibly an exaggeration for emphasis on my part. Also, I retract the 300 Million ISK per Hulk load statement, as well. Also my fault, I misread some docs that I had saved from my various times with Null corps/alliance. (Yeah, I’m a spreadsheet nerd.) It was more like 30 Million ISK per load. In short, apologies for the tiff and being an ass. It was uncalled for on my part. Regardless, back to the topic, I really don’t understand the desire to be completely safe and have your own little protected status in-game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434.md?page=21) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/risk-vs-reward-ninja-mining/188434.md?page=23)