# Running for CSM next year: **URL:** \ **Category:** CSM Campaigns\ **Created:** [September 21, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072 "2018-09-21T10:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/562 "2018-09-25T00:14:03Z")
> [@Choking\_Coyote](#): > > If you want people to back off, it might be a good idea to start apologising to the three CSM members you have openly insulted. I have not insulted any of them. Quite the opposite, and they are “supposed to be” held to a higher standard. Did you see what @The_Judge posted to me? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/563 "2018-09-25T00:17:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Send an EVEmail to all 10 current CSM and see how many respond. For the record, I respond to every piece of correspondence I receive, whether on the forums, reddit, EVEmail, email, Twitter or Facebook. I responded an hour ago to someone who has been following this thread, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/564 "2018-09-25T00:19:34Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Are you saying here that you believe that we were paid an allowance to cover our travel and rooms? “Veteran lawyer” , eh? No, I did not say that. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/565 "2018-09-25T00:20:14Z")
I’ve already told you: I want you to run _competently_. If you’re sincere in your intentions as a reform candidate, then you owe it to the people whose interests you hope to represent to do your best to be a competent, capable candidate. You owe it to them to _not_ burn your bridges before you’re even at the stage of ‘CCP has cleared me for the election’. The people who will get behind you deserve a candidate who, if elected, has not already destroyed any chances of being successful. And that’s the direction you’re heading in. I don’t know how you intend to convince CCP that abolishing the CSM is the right move, but even without that, if you intend to have any success in giving feedback and advice, you need to be able to work with the rest of the CSM. You need to be able to discuss things with them in a constructive manner, so that the CSM as a body can game out how things happen, give one another feedback and vet one another’s ideas before those ideas get presented to CCP. If you make these people your enemies— **your** enemies, personally, because **you** are making it personal here in this thread—then you will get _nothing_ done. The rest of the CSM will oppose you by reflex, and they **will** have better relationships with CCP than you will, because they’re good at building relationships. That’s why they’re where they are in life, and in EVE, completely outside of the CSM. Look at the list. Steve Ronuken’s had years of relationship building with the devs. Ditto Suitonia, Judge, Aryth, Jin’taan, Innominate… Brisc’s entire _career_ is about being able to form and maintain relationships. Sort knows these guys for years on and off the CSM, even if he pisses the devs off on the regular. Killah’s an experienced FC in a major coalition, a job that _needs_ the ability to lead and maintain relationships and work with others. Merk is a corp CEO—again, all about building and maintaining relationships. Anyone else who gets elected will get elected because they’re good at making connections with people. You’re not displaying that kind of acumen. You’re displaying just the opposite, and your potential voters need you to be better than that. You’re also presenting these assertions without hard evidence to back them up. I can promise you right now, if you do this on the CSM, Aryth alone will _eat you alive_. You will make a statement, and he will have the hard numbers to refute it, complete with sourcing and references sufficent for a professional presentation. The others won’t be far behind on having the cold, hard facts _at their fingertips_ whenever they make a statement about something. You want to do this. That’s good! That’s the biggest hurdle, man. But if you’re gonna do it? You’re asking people to trust you. You’re asking people to make _you_ their voice. You need to do it **right**. You need to not half-ass this. I’m not trying to _stop_ you. I’m trying to get it through your head that if you’re gonna do this, you need to do a much, **much** better job of it. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/566 "2018-09-25T00:21:26Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > rooms? > > “Veteran lawyer” , eh? > > No, I did not say that. Yes, I’ve been an attorney for 7 years. Thanks for clarifying that you did not mean that. So can you answer the other question? If elected, do you intend to pay your own way to Iceland for the two summits and refuse paid travel/accomodations? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/567 "2018-09-25T00:31:12Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Yes, I’ve been an attorney for 7 years. 7 years does not qualify as veterancy in jurisprudence. You should have known better than to ask a “so you are saying” query, when you already know I did not say so, and its an inadmissable leading question. Faceplanting that was as stupidly easy by saying truthfully I did not say so, as it was a stupid question. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If elected, do you intend to pay your own way to Iceland for the two summits and refuse paid travel/accomodations? If elected, I do not intend to travel to Iceland Summits at all. I will however participate via internet as required of a CSM member. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/568 "2018-09-25T00:33:01Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > its an inadmissable leading question And you should know better than to assume the standards for criminal law apply _anywhere_ else, or to act like they do. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/569 "2018-09-25T00:36:42Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > its an inadmissable leading question > > And you should know better than to assume the standards for criminal law apply _anywhere_ else, or to act like they do. Wat. This is not a criminal case, nor a court of law of any jurisdiction. “So you are saying” assertions, even as a question are always a logical and argumentative fallacy, _anywhere_. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/570 "2018-09-25T00:38:43Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > 7 years does not qualify as veterancy in jurisprudence. > You should have known better than to ask a “so you are saying” query, when you already know I did not say so, and its an inadmissable leading question. Faceplanting that was as stupidly easy by saying truthfully I did not say so, as it was a stupid question. 7 years in any profession is sufficient to call oneselves a veteran. But you’ll note that the entire sentence was “veteran lawyer and politician.” I’ve been involved in politics since 1995, actively in political work in Washington since 2003, and ran for office twice. That’s sufficient to establish my bonafides and you are literally the first person to ever question my competence at my day job. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If elected, I do not intend to travel to Iceland Summits at all. I will however participate via internet as required of a CSM member. It would have been easier if you had just said that when I asked if you were refusing to attend the summit in person. You could have simply said “yes” and then we wouldn’t have had to have the extra posting. You seem to think that every question asked of you is some kind of trap to which you cannot give a straight answer. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/571 "2018-09-25T00:40:30Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > “So you are saying” assertions, even as a question are always a logical and argumentative fallacy, _anywhere_ . The funny thing is, I didn’t make a “so you are saying” assertion. I literally asked “Are you saying…?” because I was legitimately unclear on what exactly you were trying to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/572 "2018-09-25T00:43:27Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > This is not a criminal case, nor a court of law of any jurisdiction. > > “So you are saying” assertions, even as a question are always a logical and argumentative fallacy, _anywhere_ . Any argument to something being ‘inadmissable[sic]’ requires it to be admitted by _some admitting authority_ after being _submitted_ to that authority, ie: the judge in a courtroom. You know what’s ‘admissible’ in open discussion? Any-damned-thing. By the way, remember when I said I advised against being a pedantic jerk about the i/e thing in ‘council’? Here’s why: ‘inadmissible’ is an -ible, not an -able. So now, after harping on someone’s spelling mistake, you’ve made one of your own. In a piece of software that has a built-in spellcheck. If you’re still on your phone, it would’ve tried to auto-correct it for you. It’s just not a smart move, unless you know you’re not going to screw something like that up later, yourself. (Like I said: pedantic jerk? **RIGHT HERE**.) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/573 "2018-09-25T00:45:55Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > That’s sufficient to establish my bonafides and you are literally the first person to ever question my competence at my day job. Should have happened sooner. A first year law student knows not to ask leading questions per “so you are saying”. Unless the questioned is lying and trips themself up, and even then, it is an argumentative/logical fallacy. Do not mistake me for a liar or an idiot. I am far from either. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You seem to think that every question asked of you is some kind of trap to which you cannot give a straight answer. I must have missed where you asked this directly/specifically before. Sorry, but Im dealing with many posts here at a fast rate. I would gladly have saved us both that trouble. I am a HUGE fan of direct and simple questions. They are so easy, yet weirdly quite few know how to express them, and even fewer to answer them as such. ---
**Author:** ![Mintoko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mintoko/32/376766_2.png) [@Mintoko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mintoko)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/574 "2018-09-25T01:09:40Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > This is not a criminal case, nor a court of law of any jurisdiction. You say this, yet you’ve referred to something someone has said as “testimony”. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/575 "2018-09-25T01:13:37Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I didn’t make a “so you are saying” assertion. > > I literally asked “Are you saying…?” Just noticed this. The omission of “so” from the query doesnt change or redeme that from an argumentative/logical fallacy, or as a leading question with what followed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/576 "2018-09-25T01:14:40Z")
Are you purposefully distorting what he’s saying? ‘You are saying…’ might be leading. Asking you _if_ that is what you are saying is not. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/577 "2018-09-25T01:19:03Z")
> [@Mintoko](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > This is not a criminal case, nor a court of law of any jurisdiction. > > You say this, yet you’ve referred to something someone has said as “testimony”. Check definition. It is not exclusive to a court of law. (Note the esp. part) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/578 "2018-09-25T01:21:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Asking you _if_ that is what you are saying is not. I hate the term, but that “depends” on context. _If_ is always speculative. Any question with _if_ in it, cannot be considered other than speculative, hence neither simple nor direct. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/579 "2018-09-25T01:23:07Z")
Only when conclusions are being offered. Asking you ‘is this the case, yes/no?’ is not speculative. It is purely interrogative, as a request for clarification. Note: You’ve already tried arguing with Rhivre regarding who is or isn’t on our staff. Take a long moment before you decide if you want to argue semantics with the undisputed most pedantic editor at INN. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/580 "2018-09-25T01:24:59Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Asking you ‘is this the case, yes/no?’ I was not asked that, but I certainly would have prefered it. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Note: You’ve already tried arguing with Rhivre regarding who is or isn’t on our staff. Take a long moment before you decide if you want to argue semantics with the undisputed most pedantic editor at INN. I already corrected that thanks to him. I didnt know that any member of INN can be listed as Author due to how the page is built. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/581 "2018-09-25T01:27:10Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I was not asked that, but I certainly would have prefered it. Not true. This is the original question: > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Are you saying here that you believe that we were paid an allowance to cover our travel and rooms? This is a binary question. Brisc is asking you ‘is this true?’ as a yes or no proposition. He _then_ continues into speculation, but the question itself is not speculative _whatsoever_. Additional note: The ability to say ‘you know what, I got caught up in the argument and misread/misinterpreted what was said, I was wrong’ is a _huge_ asset in the job you’re trying to get. Cultivate it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=27)