# Running for CSM next year: **URL:** \ **Category:** CSM Campaigns\ **Created:** [September 21, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072 "2018-09-21T10:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/145 "2018-09-23T10:20:29Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > What ideas/playstyles would you be representing? Those are still under formulation, aside from what is in OP and this thread. CSM elections are a long time away. Primarily I will be representing the playerbase that wants CSM changed, perks removed, political influence reduced, and if necessary, CSM disbanded. They have not had a candidate before to vote for towards those views, I will provide that. I will make their views heard on CSM and to CCP. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Please list all Summits and Fanfests you have attended as CSM. > > During Summits, what other expenses aside from flight/lodging/transport did CCP pay for? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/146 "2018-09-23T10:34:11Z")
I’ve attended one Fanfest as CSM. That was when I was on CSM 9. (we arranged for it to be changed after that) As for summits, that’d be 1 each for 9, 10 and 13, and 2 for 11 and 12. As for expenses covered, outwith flight/lodging and transport: Breakfast. (either at the hotel, or at their offices.) Lunch (at their offices. Most of the time we didn’t take then up on this, so we had some privacy for discussion, or we just didn’t fancy what they had in the canteen that day.) Dinner for one night (A meal at the end of the summit, with a number of developers) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/147 "2018-09-23T10:37:32Z")
Thank you for your comprehensive answers. I can generate some estimates of the total cost of the CSM project from these. PS: This thread has already generated more posts than yours or Rubals in the last election, in the few days it has been open. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/148 "2018-09-23T10:41:06Z")
But why? _CCP_ obviously think they’re getting their money’s worth from this. And in the end, they’re the only ones who count. And in reply to your PS: Quantity isn’t everything. Especially when so many of the posts are short and pointless 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/149 "2018-09-23T10:43:32Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > _CCP_ obviously think they’re getting their money’s worth from this. And in the end, they’re the only ones who count. What CCP thinks is one matter. What the playerbase thinks is entirely another. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > PS: Quantity isn’t everything. Especially when so many of the posts are short and pointless 😉 We will see. I think you, other CSM and the “voting” pop of EVE, grossly underestimate how many players are dissatisfied with the CSM program. They havent had a candidate to platform that for them before (Gevlon said “dont vote”, which was counterproductive), till now. * * * Just so you know, **I will be including a CSM term limit in my platform.** No offense to you, but I think many players, and I, take issue with a CSM occupying a seat for 5-6years. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/150 "2018-09-23T10:48:37Z")
So when both CCP and the rest of the CSM ignore you for a year, you will be called out for being another useless CSM-member who has done nothing to support their voters as the CSM is still going to be there. Knowing how this will end doesn’t stop me from enjoying the train-wreck in slow motion. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/151 "2018-09-23T10:51:55Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > So when both CCP and the rest of the CSM ignore you for a year If CCP and the rest of the CSM ignore me for a year, the players I represent will be all the more dissatisfied with CSM/CCP, and vocal about that. Also, I am impossible to ignore. > [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Knowing how this will end doesn’t stop me from enjoying the train-wreck in slow motion. That’s how I and my supporters view the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/152 "2018-09-23T10:54:34Z")
Oh yes, I can already picture the one-man demonstration you are having in the CCP offices with a large sign saying “Down with the CSM!” Very hard to ignore, at least until you are escorted out of the building… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/153 "2018-09-23T10:56:08Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Very hard to ignore, at least until you are escorted out of the building… That would be a mistake, and just confirm that CSM/CCP wont listen to the players that want CSM program changed at best, and removed at worst. If I am democratically elected on this platform, I have the same right as any other CSM to represent my voters and views of EVE. I will not “sabotage” the CSM program, nor fail to fulfill obligations of the position regarding changes to EVE itself etc. But changing CSM is my core purpose for running for CSM, and my mandate for my voters. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/154 "2018-09-23T11:07:06Z")
And when on the first day both CCP and the rest of the CSM will to you that the CSM is not going anywhere and they are not going to change anything about it, what will you do for the remainder of you tenure? What ideas are you representing? What other issues do you want to change or bring to CCP when they won’t discuss changing the CSM at all? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/155 "2018-09-23T11:09:34Z")
> [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > What other issues do you want to change or bring to CCP when they won’t discuss changing the CSM at all? I will formulate those at a later date. I have many views across many areas of mundane EVE which I have also expressed on these boards. That my primary mandate is changing the CSM system, does not mean I cant perform and fulfill the other obligations of a CSM. But yes, at every appropriate opportunity, I will bring up revision of the CSM system, and if that fails, disbandment. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/156 "2018-09-23T11:11:10Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Just so you know, **I will be including a CSM term limit in my platform.** > > No offense to you, but I think many players, and I, take issue with a CSM occupying a seat for 5-6years Term limits are something which come up every so often. I’m _now_ the longest sitting CSM member. I just hit that. (Well, I will in a couple of months.) That’s duration, not number of terms. The longest number of terms is 6 terms. There’s upsides and downsides to people staying in the CSM for extended periods. The downsides I’m sure you can enumerate. Upsides include being able to get new members up to speed with how things work at CCP, what’s been talked about in the past, who the right people to talk to about things, and managing longer term changes. By eliminating people from being able to run, you’re throwing away institutional knowledge. And the _vast_ majority of CSM members don’t want to run for extended numbers of terms. Especially the Americans. (It’s 2 weeks of holiday time used every year. That’s a big ask for some people.) When you suggest term limits, what kind of limit are you suggesting? (please bear in mind, term limits are actually kind of unusual. There are few political positions with them, and the ones which have them are very powerful ones. The CSM is not a power based group) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/157 "2018-09-23T11:14:21Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > When you suggest term limits, what kind of limit are you suggesting? 2 consecutive term limit, with 2 yr forced abstention before re-running. Obviously based on the person, not the character. We dont want “entrenched” CSM on the panel, whom gather influence every year, and more opportunity for fresh blood and diversity in the representation as EVE and its population evolves. I’m largely ambivalent on your own 5-6 terms, but it “stinks” a bit, even if you have not unduly gained influence and applied that either to CCP, the CSM, players or the game. Surely you can see these concerns are valid, not on you personally, but on the system that enables that. This runs parallel to my concern, and many players, of the same Corp/Alliances occupying multiple seats on the CSM. Its a bad risk, and prone to political/influence exploitation. * * * Youve attended 7 CSM Summits. Surely you can see this raises grave concerns as to who you are, what you are doing, and if you have accumulated undue influence/connections instead of someone fresh. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Saboteur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dread_saboteur/32/270709_2.png) [@Dread\_Saboteur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dread_Saboteur)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/158 "2018-09-23T11:23:07Z")
You’re a radical CCP don’t want hysterical people on CSM. Also your attitude is hostile to CCP they don’t want that ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/159 "2018-09-23T11:23:17Z")
What kind of exploitation are you accusing people of? What power do you think the CSM has? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/160 "2018-09-23T11:24:09Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > What kind of exploitation are you accusing people of? I havent accused you or any other person of exploitation. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/161 "2018-09-23T11:24:59Z")
Then lets expand the question: What kind of exploitation are you concerned will happen? ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Saboteur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dread_saboteur/32/270709_2.png) [@Dread\_Saboteur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dread_Saboteur)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/162 "2018-09-23T11:25:53Z")
Canceling nerfs such as fax nerf.Or diminishing it ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/163 "2018-09-23T11:26:38Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > What kind of exploitation are you concerned will happen? Undue accumulation of influence/connections over several years, ingame, with CCP, with other CSM, as a CSM with access to information and influence on changes to each. Lets say EVE had elected the same 10 CSM, for 10 years straight. That is the concern, taken to its extreme, but it is valid and present even in shorter terms of fewer re-elected CSM. Hence, a term limit of 2yrs, and 2yrs outside before re-running. After 2 years, step aside, and let someone else participate in CSM, as to the situation of that time. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/164 "2018-09-23T11:32:36Z")
So you are against people becoming friends with each other? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=8)