# Running for CSM next year: **URL:** \ **Category:** CSM Campaigns\ **Created:** [September 21, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072 "2018-09-21T10:35:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1460 "2018-09-27T21:00:25Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > They are silent because they are fed up with being trolled and misrepresented. Please prove this before attempting to claim it in any authoritative way. Provide evidence that the vast majority of EVE players who are not commenting in this thread are fed up with being trolled and misrepresented, and not, for example, simply uninterested and/or apathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1461 "2018-09-27T21:01:23Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > It can be instituted. It cannot be instituted in any meaningful or effective way, no. Would you like me to repeat the reasoning behind that statement? Can you refute the reasoning already presented? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1462 "2018-09-27T21:01:38Z")
You did not answer my question, except by another question inverting it. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1463 "2018-09-27T21:02:58Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You did not answer my question The answer is that I don’t know. Neither do you. > except by another question inverting it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I’m merely following the example you’ve set all the way through this thread. Annoying isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1464 "2018-09-27T21:04:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Please prove this before attempting to claim it in any authoritative way. I dont have to prove it to run for CSM. How many dissatisfied players reagarding CSM there are out there, and can I reach them, or will they vote for me to change CSM, will be determined only in the election itself, as is the same for any other CSM candidate on any platform. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1465 "2018-09-27T21:05:22Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > The answer is that I don’t know. No. You dont. And thus have no basis to claim they do not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1466 "2018-09-27T21:06:01Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What % of the EVE playerbase do you think are dissatisfied with the CSM Program? 13.37% All the leet people! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1467 "2018-09-27T21:06:29Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > No. You dont. Nor do you, that’s the point. > And thus have no basis to claim they do not exist. By the same logic you have no basis to claim that they do. This works both ways Salvos. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1468 "2018-09-27T21:07:53Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Annoying isn’t it? No. Just makes you a hypocrite and disingenuous. All that annoys me, slightly, is your trolling. You will never vote for me Jonah, no matter what. I could run as the perfect candidate for you, with a platform that matches your perfect dream, and still you would never, ever vote for me. I dont need you. Stop acting like I need your approval. I dont. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1469 "2018-09-27T21:09:46Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I dont have to prove it to run for CSM. No, you certainly don’t. You do, however, have to prove it if you want to make a claim and be considered to be arguing in good faith, as opposed to (as you currently appear) arguing speciously with no actual evidence behind your pre-drawn conclusions. You appear to be arguing in bad faith, and repeating spurious claims that you cannot back up, and the truth of which you have no interest in knowing or demonstrating. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > How many dissatisfied players reagarding CSM there are out there, and can I reach them, or will they vote for me to change CSM, will be determined only in the election itself, as is the same for any other CSM candidate on any platform. This is very true, but your active claims, your _stated position of supposed fact_, asserts that you have already determined that number. In short, it is dishonest to make that claim without evidence. And now, let’s turn back to the other issue. Please refute the following, including your logic and supporting evidence, if you can: > [@Arrendis](#): > > Additionally, only one CSM per Corp/Alliance is a hollow, toothless idea. It’s obvious who you aim that idea at, but let’s take a moment and look at the actual CSM landscape _right now_ . > > Right now, there are 10 CSM. Of them, 7/6 are not in the same Corp/Alliance. 4 are members of the same Alliance, and 3 of those, in fact, the same Corporation. If your plan to limit that Corp/Alliance to 1 member were active… _they could just move_ . > > For the moment, let’s set aside movement _during_ a term, and just look at the easy case. You’re pretty clearly aiming this bit at the Imperium, and Goonswarm, but if we look at the Alliances in the Imperium, LAWN, Bastion, and TNT have no CSM members. So it’d be child’s play to move 3 people into different Alliances to evade your hollow, ineffectual limitation. > > Please note that that was Alliances, not Corps. If we were just shuffling people between of corps, CONDI has enough corps to make that a no-brainer. Judge could go to Amok., Innominate stay where he is, and Aryth could be shuffled into ASCEE cuz that’d be hilarious and cruel (to both him and ASCEE). > > But that’s just moving them _before_ they’re elected. At least one CSM member has changed Alliance twice this term. (Do you know which one? It was kinda publicized if you were paying attention.) Three of the current CSM changed their Alliance during the course of the previous term (including one of the ones now in the same Corporation as 2 others), _while two of them were on the CSM_ . > > At no point do the functions and terms of CSM membership imply that a candidate is pledging to represent _their Corp/Alliance_ to CCP. With that in mind, how would you propose keeping such a move from happening? Do you plan to insist that players not be allowed to change Corporation while they’re on the CSM? Is that even remotely sane? If a CSM member’s corporation failscades during their term, they end up locked into a 5-man corp that can’t do anything because the CEO and 3 other players all quit? > > What if they got _kicked out_ ? Can the corp CEO not kick someone out of corp because they’re on the CSM? > > 6 are (now) members of the same Coalition, a distinction that has _absolutely no official imprimateur from CCP_ . There is no in-game support for Coalitions. There is no forum designation of coalitions. CCP’s developers are not expected to track Coalition membership. Without that, there’s no way to really police ‘which Coalition are you in?’ This is especially true when you consider that each prospective CSM member designates which of their accounts and alts they wish to identify with. > > The nullsec spy game depends, to large extent, on being able to operate without having your alts identified, including by hostile spies. Spies often use VPNs and other smokescreens to disguise their IP addresses and other tell-tale indicators of linked accounts. The organizations that use these spies are well aware of these methods, and train their spies in their use. It would be child’s play to train their CSMs in such things as well (assuming the CSM in question isn’t already familiar with them). CCP’s stance on doxxing prevents them from revealing a player’s alts, which would make it difficult for them to say ‘Oh, no, Salvos can’t actually serve even though you voted him in, he has an alt in CONDI’. > > And that doesn’t even get into the plan we openly acknowledged we’d use when CCP was talking about limiting Alliance sizes: ‘Goonswarm 1’, ‘Goonswarm 2’, ‘Goonswarm 3’… And then answer the question I posed at the end of the original instance of that text: > [@](#): > > So… how do you propose enforcing this idea in a way that has _any_ actual effect? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1470 "2018-09-27T21:14:00Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > If CSM is not changed, that future may well have 6/10 GoonWaffe/GSF Corp/Alliance tagged seated CSM. This is unlikely. The result of this election was a fluke, honestly. Based on the number of ballots cast, there are simply not enough Goons voting to win 6/10 seats. They can win, at best, three using their ballot alone. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1471 "2018-09-27T21:14:11Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > You do, however, have to prove it if you want to make a claim and be considered to be arguing in good faith, as opposed to (as you currently appear) arguing speciously with no actual evidence behind your pre-drawn conclusions. Not to you or anyone else here. Thats up to CCP. My campaign and platform is legit. This is not a “joke”. > [@Arrendis](#): > > This is very true, but your active claims, your _stated position of supposed fact_ , asserts that you have already determined that number. I have asserted that I believe a substantial proportion of EVE playerbase would support my platform for CSM change, and if necessary, disbandment, to get elected as CSM. If I did not think so, why would I bother running. > [@Arrendis](#): > > So… how do you propose enforcing this idea in a way that has _any_ actual effect? It will have actual effect as I have already proposed it and explained. Whether you agree or not, is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1472 "2018-09-27T21:16:09Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > If CSM is not changed, that future may well have 6/10 GoonWaffe/GSF Corp/Alliance tagged seated CSM. > > This is unlikely. The result of this election was a fluke, honestly. Based on the number of ballots cast, there are simply not enough Goons voting to win 6/10 seats. They can win, at best, three using their ballot alone. The less people vote, the stronger the Goon ballot gets in proportion. If you persist in this trolling and sabotage, I will draw the conclusion you are infact working for GSF. This is now the 7th time I am asking you to stop trolling/disrupting my campaign thread by you as a seated CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1473 "2018-09-27T21:16:41Z")
I think he lost it tbh ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1474 "2018-09-27T21:19:18Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > No. > Just makes you a hypocrite and disingenuous. Unlike you, I can admit to it. > All that annoys me, slightly, is your trolling. Disagreeing with you is not trolling. Pointing out flaws in your platform is not trolling. Questioning who you represent is not trolling. I’ll put my hands up to having some ironic fun at your expense which could be construed as trolling by a small minority of probably 1. > You will never vote for me Jonah, no matter what. You’re correct, I will never vote for you, but as a member of the electorate I am entitled to heckle you just as in any other election. > I could run as the perfect candidate for you, with a platform that matches your perfect dream and still you would never, ever vote for me. You could never present a platform that would appeal to me, you continually miss the bigger picture. > I dont need you. Stop acting like I need your approval. > I dont. Correct. You don’t need my approval, nor would you get it if you did. I am however, allowed to express my disapproval. You have put yourself out as a public figure, as such you are going to encounter much more scrutiny that you’ve experienced thus far in this thread. As Arrendis has suggested, if you’re going to run, do it competently and cleanly. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1475 "2018-09-27T21:25:25Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > No. > > Just makes you a hypocrite and disingenuous. > > Unlike you, I can admit to it. Good. It was readily apparent anyways. I have nothing else to say to you. Go be a hypocrite and disingenuous somewhere else. I dont need your approval. I dont need your agreement. I dont need your vote (nor would I get it, no matter what). I dont need your trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1476 "2018-09-27T21:25:58Z")
guys just vote for me over salvos… I will answer honestly any question you guys have. ---
**Author:** ![Mintoko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mintoko/32/376766_2.png) [@Mintoko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mintoko)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1477 "2018-09-27T21:27:00Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > I think he lost it tbh Did he ever have it? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1478 "2018-09-27T21:30:55Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > A substantial proportion of players do not think they are working towards that end, and are just representing their overlords agendas. This is libel. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072/1479 "2018-09-27T21:31:12Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I dont need your trolling. Expressing my disapproval of your platform and your assumptions of support, because I think it’s a poorly conceived idea with little thought for the aftereffects of it ever becoming reality, and that your claimed support from other players is questionable, is not trolling. Calling it an ego trip, now that would be trolling if it wasn’t quite so plausible. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=69) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/running-for-csm-next-year/108072.md?page=71)