# Salvaging Wrecks that are not yours

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153>\
**Category:** Player Features & Ideas\
**Created:** [July 16, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153 "2020-07-16T02:47:19Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/81 "2020-07-17T02:39:13Z")

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Can you rephrase your question/point? I’d like to response to it, I just don’t understand what you mean or are trying to say.

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**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/82 "2020-07-17T02:45:29Z")

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Ninjas are fast. They find you. They harvest the salvage. They get out. They are in fragile ships and have to avoid the NPCs. You PVE guys have everything worked out so that you know you have virtually no risk and you have calculated your isk/hr before you undock.

Maybe these guys aren’t “ninjas” - but what are you guys? Ranchers? Leading the NPC cattle to slaughter?

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/83 "2020-07-17T02:53:42Z")

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I personally am not one of those “PVE Guys” or krabs, I just think it makes for good PVP opportunity/disruptive gameplay. Here you have a situation where you’ve got a demographic that ranks lower than the krabbers: the I-want-the-goods-but-won’t-even-use-a-PVE-fit-to-krab-for-it. I mean really? You won’t even krab but you still feel entitled to goods without risk or consequence?

Yes, suspect flagging is disruptive gameplay and may significantly dampen the extent to which ninja salvaging is done, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. All this means is that players will have to find something more worthwhile to do with their time. At the barest of minimums, they can fleet with the PVErs, which means they can salvage exactly the same as before, but cooperatively instead of selfishly. Learn2Share. How many players are going to ragequit because they can’t ninja salvage anymore as safely as before? How badly is the economy going to be affected because of the decrease in ninja salvaging from those who won’t fleet up with PVEers? The economy was more hurt by the introduction of MTUs than it would be by suspect flagging salvaging wrecks. On that note, I think the economy would be improved via healthy scarcity rather than hurt by this change.

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**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/84 "2020-07-17T03:01:49Z")

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> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#):
>
> You won’t even krab but you still feel entitled to goods without risk or consequence?

You mean miners?

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/85 "2020-07-17T03:02:26Z")

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😆  
They can address risk by paying for their permits.

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**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/86 "2020-07-17T03:04:12Z")

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Don’t you run one on the biggest mercenary krabbing operations in the game? People literally pay your people to krab for them.

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/87 "2020-07-17T03:46:55Z")

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Hey, I said _ **\>\>\> I \<\<\<** _ don’t personally krab, not that my clients or employees don’t. I negotiate jobs, I take my cut, I let them do all the work 😛

But even then, I wouldn’t consider my group a krab group either. I won’t comment on our clients - that’s their business. As for our employees… it’s mostly newbies that work for us. We offer a good opportunity for them to learn the basics of the game and earn ISK - then most of them move on to higher end content. So many of them regularly deactivate their availability status because they’re busy with corp ops, alliance warfare, LS/NS/WS life, etc, and our business quickly downgrades into a side-gig for them to do while multitasking other things IRL. Besides: even though the revenue is about the best you can get for an activity that is solo and stupid safe, for most employees it is generally short of what they could score in higher end soloable content (that includes HS-accessible content like abyssals and incursions). Few of our employees perform so damn well that they earn more with us than they would sporting a capital out in nullsec (pay is performance based).

We’re the exception to the rule, though. If our employees weren’t paid to do what they do, they wouldn’t make even one-fifth of the wealth from the PVE content alone. Few of our guys bother looting (maybe whatever an MTU grabs before we finish clearing a room, leave behind what it doesn’t finish collecting, time is money for us and the loot isn’t worth the ISK we lose taking the time to loot it), and not one of them bothers to salvage (maybe the newbies do until we tell them it’s not worth it for the same reason). Krabs or not, this proposal doesn’t affect our ops since we don’t salvage - we ditch. We would literally lose more ISK from the time we spend salvaging than the salvage is worth (salvage from L4s is trash - better off getting them from relic sites, honestly).

**TLDR: I have no personal stake in this proposal, and neither does my group. I literally think it would be healthier for the game on a standalone basis.**

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**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/88 "2020-07-17T03:48:56Z")

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The fleet is made up of players from multiple corps, who need to be able to keep pulled ore separated by corp (and even player, in certain cases). The Orca’s ore hold doesn’t have a mechanic for sorting ore between corps - it all lumps together. Hauler alts, on the other hand, can scoop the contents into named containers, or split runs based on corp, to keep everything straight.

Just because we have use cases that you didn’t expect doesn’t mean we are failing to leverage the game in full. Dial back on the condescending attitude, please.

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**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/89 "2020-07-17T03:58:42Z")

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This whole thread is hilarious.

CCP has clearly documented that salvaging being free for all is **intended** …

They’ve introduced new content where the valuable stuff is in the salvage instead of the loot _knowing_ that, when they could have simply placed the valuable stuff in the loot if they wanted…

And plenty of people here seem to believe this is something CCP has done by mistake or that the rules for salvaging should be changed accordingly, without even considering the possibility that CCP did it _on purpose_ and placed the valuable stuff in the salvage precisely because salvaging is free for all… 🤣

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/90 "2020-07-17T04:13:52Z")

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> [@Knowledgeminer](#):
>
> CCP has clearly documented that salvaging being free for all is **intended** …

In previous posts you’ve made your position clear: “if it works as intended, it’s fine”. Yeah, no.

I have two better positions:

1. If it sucks, change it.
2. If it can be improved, improve it.

> [@Knowledgeminer](#):
>
> CCP has done by mistake

This happens with regularity.

> [@Knowledgeminer](#):
>
> CCP did it _on purpose_

Conscientiously made and purposefully implemented mistakes are still mistakes.

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**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/91 "2020-07-17T04:20:21Z")

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Talk about not getting it. You cannot even imagine _why_ they may have done that _on purpose_, can you? And no, I’m not going to explain it myself, letting this keep going is so much funnier… 🤣

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/92 "2020-07-17T04:23:29Z")

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Please, I’m begging you, help me understand 🙏

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/93 "2020-07-17T04:48:52Z")

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Let’s see… take a topic worth debating… good discussion… sound arguments on all sides… then here comes @Knowledgeminer “I’m smarter than everyone else you’re all dumb I’m not going to contribute meaningfully to the conversation but let me pee on everyone and make an ass of myself before I leave”  
👏

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**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/94 "2020-07-17T05:10:07Z")

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Eve is a complex game that is designed to have complexity. Having the loot belong to the krab and the salvage belong to everyone is part of that complexity. If you just made everything belong to the krab then you are simplifying the game and removing emergent gameplay.

As it stands now, a griefer can choose to either suspect bait the victim, or they can choose to just take the salvage. The krab can respond by out-salvaging the “ninja” - there are interesting choices for everybody to make.

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**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/95 "2020-07-17T05:38:12Z")

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Yes, exactly. There is plenty of evidedence that this was a _conscious_ decision, so you could have at the very least considered the _possibility_ that they had some good reason to do things the way they did, which would have led you to ask some questions to yourself, such as what purpose could it serve, who does it benefit the most, and such…

But no, many of you have to behave in the selfish self-entitled way so common in these forums and proclaim “hey, if this doesn’t benefit _me_ and makes _my_ gameplay harder, there sure has to be something wrong with it because these developers are morons, so what other explanation there could be?”

So yes, I’m gonna make an ass of myself, have a laugh at the whole thread, and leave it at that, because that’s exactly what you deserve…

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**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/96 "2020-07-17T05:48:26Z")

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> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#):
>
> Dial back on the condescending attitude, please

Then maybe don’t make me pull the full explaination out line by line? And actually explain fully from the start.

Like I said, I wasn’t imaging jet cans at all, and I’m not entirely sure why you thought they would be included in a change to wrecks, but felt it was worth investigating if such a change to jet cans would actually matter.

In your case I think you could use other tools such as the mining ledger and an orca to achieve the same outcome with similar levels of effort, but I can understand why you might go the way you have, especially since the ledger is probably newer than your procedures first development.

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**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/97 "2020-07-17T07:07:02Z")

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Someone suggested giving suspect flag for ninja-moon mining, even based csm campaign on that, claiming their athanor ownership also granted them asteriod field ownership.

Exact same mechanic, you first create a wreck/asteriod that needs further extraction of salvage/ore. You can’t claim asteroid ownership, you shouldn’t also be able to claim a wreck.

If OP wants to be able to **protect** their wrecks why not move lowsec, or trigsec without concord? How about this option for pvp opportunity?

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**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/98 "2020-07-17T07:27:45Z")

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You also raise a good point on “why not move to lowsec?”. Pretty much everyone in this thread has raised good points for and against. Only one person in this thread was an unconstructive dickhead for no reason 🙄

But to address your point specifically: why not bring PVP of lowsec to hisec 😁?

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**Author:** ![Elle\_Mendez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elle_mendez/32/297262_2.png) [@Elle\_Mendez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elle_Mendez)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/99 "2020-07-17T09:19:57Z")

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I’ve seen many salvaging Pilots in competition with each other, bringing their best fits and scanning abilities to the game.

If pilots want to protect assets (wrecks) then options exist such as system security status, where some of the protections are removed from everybody. I.e. do the Trig sites in low sec if you want more reward for more risk. There are other options for hi sec as discussed above e.g. salvager in fleet / ganking.

Why dilute the options and complexity of the game?

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**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\
**Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/100 "2020-07-17T11:22:06Z")

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Guess the OP @DarkSide_ofa_BrightClown ran out of his own thread…lol…

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