# Salvaging Wrecks that are not yours **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [July 16, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153 "2020-07-16T02:47:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/141 "2020-08-26T23:35:15Z")
It is not ‘all loot by definition’, as CCP has defined loot and salvage as different categories of objects that can be produced when a ship is wrecked. Case in point: blowing up structures produces loot - but does not produce salvage. While both are _drops_ from an action, they are explicitly different types of drops and have explicitly different legality mechanics in EVE. Players do not own salvage. Just like they do not own any given PvE site - and why there is no suspect status granted if someone follows you (general) into a mission and steals your objective, or goes to the same combat site and snipes the objective ship, or goes to the same asteroid belt and mines all the rocks out from under you. The only PvE things players own are the loot-drop contents of a wreck. That’s been EVE since the inception of salvaging. If you (general) want to be able to fight people who invade your PvE session, get out of high sec. Otherwise, leverage existing game mechanics to gather the stuff you want before someone else can get to it. Nothing is broken in wrecks being available to anyone to clean up. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/142 "2020-08-26T23:42:23Z")
> [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > I have a question for both of you. Would you be okay is there were no penalty to looting wrecks? I know you aren’t asking me, but I’ll answer anyhow. I’m fine with however the game was designed. Thing is, it’s not like something has changed. Whether for lore reasons or otherwise the way wrecks are handled has been the same since the game started. When I joined EVE I knew this was how things worked and I chose to play the game within the ruleset the universe laid out for me. I wouldn’t be happy if CCP just decided, like 18 years after the game was released to arbitrarily change this for no good reason. Especially with so much content built around these mechanics. As an example CCP knew full well the can of worms they would create when they designed invasions. They like creating conflict drivers. I would be less happy if they bent to the complainers and changed salvaging just to “fix” this. ---
**Author:** ![Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashitaka_taharqa/32/287191_2.png) [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashitaka_Taharqa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/143 "2020-08-27T07:38:29Z")
> [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](#): > > It is not ‘all loot by definition’, as CCP has defined loot and salvage as different categories of objects that can be produced when a ship is wrecked. > > Case in point: blowing up structures produces loot - but does not produce salvage. > > While both are _drops_ from an action, they are explicitly different types of drops and have explicitly different legality mechanics in EVE. > > Players do not own salvage. Just like they do not own any given PvE site - and why there is no suspect status granted if someone follows you (general) into a mission and steals your objective, or goes to the same combat site and snipes the objective ship, or goes to the same asteroid belt and mines all the rocks out from under you. The only PvE things players own are the loot-drop contents of a wreck. That’s been EVE since the inception of salvaging. > > If you (general) want to be able to fight people who invade your PvE session, get out of high sec. Otherwise, leverage existing game mechanics to gather the stuff you want before someone else can get to it. Nothing is broken in wrecks being available to anyone to clean up. I’m not talking about object categories as labeled by CCP. Salvage is loot by dictionary definition, not CCP’s or some individual’s personal definition, but by the dictionary definition. You know, the actual definition as we would use the term in everyday conversation. Salvage is loot. Period. I’m not going to argue game naming semantics vs actual definitions with you. You don’t get to just say in EVE this is called loot and this is called salvage and magically the meaning of the actual English words cease to be. If your position on the subject is simply, “This is how it is, and has always been, so there”, then this is a pointless conversation and there is no reason to continue it unless you have some reasoning why it would be problematic if looting yellow salvage was a suspect offense. Yes, I understand that right now wreck salvage can be collected by anyone without a suspect penalty. I am a ninja salvager myself when the opportunity presents itself. Nobody is arguing that that reality doesn’t exist. You’re adding nothing to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashitaka_taharqa/32/287191_2.png) [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashitaka_Taharqa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/144 "2020-08-27T07:45:16Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > > [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > > > I have a question for both of you. Would you be okay is there were no penalty to looting wrecks? > > I know you aren’t asking me, but I’ll answer anyhow. I’m fine with however the game was designed. > > Thing is, it’s not like something has changed. Whether for lore reasons or otherwise the way wrecks are handled has been the same since the game started. When I joined EVE I knew this was how things worked and I chose to play the game within the ruleset the universe laid out for me. > > I wouldn’t be happy if CCP just decided, like 18 years after the game was released to arbitrarily change this for no good reason. Especially with so much content built around these mechanics. > > As an example CCP knew full well the can of worms they would create when they designed invasions. They like creating conflict drivers. I would be less happy if they bent to the complainers and changed salvaging just to “fix” this. It’s not about anything being new. I myself have wondered to myself from time to time why wrecks turn yellow and yet stealing them doesn’t constitute a yellow offense. The OP had an issue and brought it forward. There was nothing wrong about what she said. It makes sense for looting yellow wreck salvage to make one go suspect if taking the scrap metal does. Destroying a wreck, oddly enough, will make you go suspect and yellow wrecks are invalid targets in regard to salvage drone auto-salvaging. You can disagree with the OP’s proposition (as I did), but my liking things as they are isn’t a counterargument. Simply stating the obvious, that salvaging yellow wrecks doesn’t make you go suspect and has for as long as we can remember is also not a counterargument or a reason for things not to change in the future. I’m surprised that the response was not something like, “This is EVE, it should be dangerous to take peoples salvage. Reward comes with risk!!!” Instead, the response has been what I’d expect from so-called HiSec carebears. > [@Daichi Yamato](#): > > Then you don’t want the salvage _that_ much do you? And ganking is easy, risk free and guaranteed isk anyways, so i have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m going to stop here and assume you’re just being a contrarians for the sake of being a contrarian. Salvage (5km range) while engaging site NPCs? 🤣 I know you know better than this. If I were to take you seriously I would be insulting your intelligence and mine. I give your attempt 4/10 trolls. Be more subtle in your future trolling endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![Jint\_Hikaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jint_hikaru/32/387656_2.png) [@Jint\_Hikaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jint_Hikaru)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/145 "2020-08-27T08:32:20Z")
> [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > Salvage is loot by dictionary definition, not CCP’s or some individual’s personal definition, but by the dictionary definition. You know, the actual definition as we would use the term in everyday conversation. Salvage is loot. Period. I’m not going to argue game naming semantics vs actual definitions with you Can you let us know which Dictionary definition you are referencing please. Because some quick google-fu resulted in… Cambridge Dictionary to save goods from damage or destruction, especially from a ship that has sunk or been damaged or a building that has been damaged by fire or a flood. Royal Yachting Association Under **Salvage Law** a person who recovers another person’s boat or cargo from danger at sea is entitled to a reward based on the value of the property saved. Maritime Law The **law of salvage** is a principle of maritime law whereby any person who helps recover another person’s ship or cargo in peril at sea is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of the property salved. **You claim salvage is loot by definition, but you failed (or neglected) to say that all the definitions also state that the value of that “loot” belongs to the person who ‘salvaged’ it.** ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/146 "2020-08-27T11:43:54Z")
> [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > Simply stating the obvious, that salvaging yellow wrecks doesn’t make you go suspect and has for as long as we can remember is also not a counterargument or a reason for things not to change in the future. Sure it is in some cases. As an example, which you didn’t address specifically is invasions. invasion rewards, being salvage heavy was by design, with the current salvage mechanics in mind. I wish I could find it but there was a podcast (probably a TIS one) where a CCP dev was on talking specifically about this. CCP WANTED this situation to be present in invasions. The OP can complain about it, but the answer is “why should it be changed, CCP WANTED it this way”. > [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > I’m going to stop here and assume you’re just being a contrarians for the sake of being a contrarian. Salvage (5km range) while engaging site NPCs? 🤣 I do it all the time. There is in fact a ship designed specifically to be able to do this, called a marauder. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/147 "2020-08-27T13:37:12Z")
Do any of the following… 1.) adapt 2.) learn to play 3.) HTFU just stop being CAREBEARS for those wanting to get the salvage mechanics and as consequence the Crime Watch mechanics changed… if you cant stop, then quit, go play WoW. ---
**Author:** ![Leora\_Jomir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leora_jomir/32/257897_2.png) [@Leora\_Jomir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leora_Jomir)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/148 "2020-08-27T13:45:34Z")
People can steal all loot from all wrecks though. Eve is a game where stealing from others is a totally valid play style. They can’t just shut down an avenue of income for other players because it inconveniences you. Particularly when there are solutions as someone already pointed out. Have a corp mate there to protect/salvage the wrecks for you, for example. Not trying to be rude here, just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/149 "2020-08-27T15:00:07Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > CCP set the rules when salvage wasn’t the big value salvage was extremely valuable when it , and rigs , were first introduced . only empty wrecks could be salvaged , which kept “theft” to a minimum . this was unpopular and soon changed . small and medium rigs were introduced , which lowered demand for salvage . it became more profitable to not salvage , and continue ratting or running missions . blue loot and invasions have changed that … but ccp’s original stance still holds true : salvaging someone else’s wreck is not theft , because the salvage is actually created by the person doing the salvaging . and all the rationalizing being done here doesn’t change that . ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/150 "2020-08-27T15:22:27Z")
> [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > Out of curiosity, how exactly would you go about _“actively protecting”_ your salvage? Leave the kiddie pool, aka high sec, and then you can defend what you think is yours. If you want to play in the kiddie pool then some other kids may not play nice with you. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/151 "2020-08-27T15:22:59Z")
> [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > Destroying a wreck, oddly enough, will make you go suspect Criminal. Like an asteroid. > [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > “This is EVE, it should be dangerous to take peoples salvage. Reward comes with risk!!!” It is. You can get ganked. Just like mining. What do you think would happen if salvaging caused suspect? You think people would still do it? No. Like can flipping it would just stop. Which would be a ■■■■ thing to do to such a great and newbro friendly profession. I’m contrarian and you’re a stubborn ass. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/152 "2020-08-27T15:44:29Z")
I have heard that shooting wrecks gets you concorded; why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/153 "2020-08-27T15:49:14Z")
Don’t know. Shooting asteroids also makes you criminal. Collidable structures in your own missions. Stations Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/154 "2020-08-27T17:18:22Z")
Shooting your own wrecks is not, unless that changed. I hadn’t tried to shoot someone else’s wreck, so idk about that. ---
**Author:** ![Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashitaka_taharqa/32/287191_2.png) [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashitaka_Taharqa)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/155 "2020-08-27T17:50:32Z")
> [@Jint\_Hikaru](#): > > > [@Ashitaka\_Taharqa](#): > > > > Salvage is loot by dictionary definition, not CCP’s or some individual’s personal definition, but by the dictionary definition. You know, the actual definition as we would use the term in everyday conversation. Salvage is loot. Period. I’m not going to argue game naming semantics vs actual definitions with you > > Can you let us know which Dictionary definition you are referencing please. > Because some quick google-fu resulted in… > > Cambridge Dictionary > to save goods from damage or destruction, especially from a ship that has sunk or been damaged or a building that has been damaged by fire or a flood. > > Royal Yachting Association > Under **Salvage Law** a person who recovers another person’s boat or cargo from danger at sea is entitled to a reward based on the value of the property saved. > > Maritime Law > The **law of salvage** is a principle of maritime law whereby any person who helps recover another person’s ship or cargo in peril at sea is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of the property salved. > > **You claim salvage is loot by definition, but you failed (or neglected) to say that all the definitions also state that the value of that “loot” belongs to the person who ‘salvaged’ it.** You went out of your way to using, as you say, “Google-fu” to come up with some alternative instead of simply looking in a dictionary as was stated. 🙄 You people are merely contrarians and like arguing for the sake of arguing. I don’t have the patience for this level of immaturity. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/156 "2020-08-27T17:59:46Z")
We are trying to patiently explain these things to you as if you were a child. You don’t seem to be listening. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/157 "2020-08-27T18:08:47Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > I have heard that shooting wrecks gets you concorded; why is that? I think it’s just an artifact of designing a game over two decades. It makes little sense that shooting a wreck gets you CONCORDed but shooting a MTU just earns you a suspect flag. We probably need a CrimeWatch 3.0 at some point in the next few years to clean up some of the strange rules of highsec PvP ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/158 "2020-08-27T18:17:19Z")
Yo, @Mike_Azariah - can you please get this fixed? Call CCP back from vacation if you have to. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/159 "2020-08-27T19:24:32Z")
> [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > but ccp’s original stance still holds true : salvaging someone else’s wreck is not theft , because the salvage is actually created by the person doing the salvaging Imagine that. When asking for a change the current situation is the current situation. Under your reasoning the loot is created by the rat so is owned by the rat, not the killer. Its pants on head backwards logic. You even said initially salvaging was effectively protected due to the initial loot requirement… So CCP clearly intended it to be ‘owned’ if you want to go appealing to ‘initial CCP thinking’. I believe there is cause for a change to the current situation for both loot and salvage and a short (5 to 15 minute) use it or lose it timer which is consistent and applies to both should be put in place. Note that this opens more loot up to theft if they don’t loot as they go, and increases the ability to live as a salvager without relying on mission runners etc good will to abandon wrecks. It creates a good middle ground where it’s not a click fest to see who gets the salvage but you can’t just leave it for an hour at an MTU then come back either. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153/160 "2020-08-27T19:28:33Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > I have heard that shooting wrecks gets you concorded; why is that? Sorry I’m double posting but missed this. It is to prevent trolling of mission runners and destroying their mission items basically. Even if it turned you suspect there would be no meaningful way to defend your wrecks from getting popped since they are well… wrecks and die so easily. And well… the mission running system is archaic and uses the item requirement in most cases as a trigger because the system couldn’t handle processing missions on rat kill initially. So… legacy code is right, but it is legacy code with a specific purpose. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/salvaging-wrecks-that-are-not-yours/255153.md?page=9)