# Sanmatar pisses on the Ray's grave, again **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365 "2021-07-26T12:40:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/21 "2021-07-26T17:20:53Z")
It is for times like these that I possess a _strategic collective punishment reserve_. ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_maxwell/32/319582_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Maxwell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/22 "2021-07-26T17:23:03Z")
So does division. I’m not sure the Republic should seek enemies within when there are more than enough enemies without. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/23 "2021-07-26T17:28:40Z")
That presumes we wouldn’t stop shooting one another to shoot someone else butting their nose into our collective business. History says otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/24 "2021-07-26T17:32:41Z")
> [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > So does division. I’m not sure the Republic should seek enemies within when there are more than enough enemies without. There’s wisdom in fighting both. I for one would hate to fight against a totalitarian shithole and then find out my nation has become the same. “_He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you._” ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_maxwell/32/319582_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Maxwell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/25 "2021-07-26T21:46:15Z")
I don’t see internecine warfare amongst the Amarr. In fact, they seem rather unified, the biggest contention outside of religious matters being whether Minmatar should be reclaimed as slaves, or left alone. And they don’t usually come to blows over it. Even though the Republic has the Federation’s backing, having a civil conflict doesn’t really help winning back your people and building a strong defense against Empire aggression. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/26 "2021-07-27T02:32:13Z")
> [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > I don’t see internecine warfare amongst the Amarr. When the only virtue your society holds as inviolate is _obedience_, you’ll get that. Literally every other virtue, they throw away the moment they’re ordered to. And not for nothing, but ‘be more like the Amarr!’ isn’t exactly gonna get any traction. ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_maxwell/32/319582_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Maxwell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/27 "2021-07-27T02:54:12Z")
I can only offer advice. Whether it is worth listening to, or simply disregarding, is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaltraki\_Vurnkeir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaltraki_vurnkeir/32/282384_2.png) [@Zaltraki\_Vurnkeir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaltraki_Vurnkeir)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/28 "2021-07-27T03:32:11Z")
I find it disconcerting that in the current political climate in the Republic it is held that recourse to violence is a solution to be promulgated as the solution to the myriad issues our people face. The recent pardons of groups like the Bloody Hands or Defiants lionizes those who believe that immediate violence against the Amarr Empire is the primary responsibility of the Republic and its people. This is an unsurprising move by Sanmatar Shakor who has often used his credentials as a freedom fighter to bludgeon his critics – both metaphorically and literally – as somehow lacking his same convictions at best, or as traitors, collaborators, or appeasers with the Amarr at worst. This was demonstrated by Shakor’s own treatment of the Ray of Matar in the past, because regardless of what flowery prose the Sanmatar reserves for Karin Midular posthumously it does not negate his past criticism of her policies which were often couched in the derisive rhetoric of accusations of appeasement towards the Amarr Empire. By Shakor’s own words Midular was a villain now made a hero, a hypocrisy made worse by the fact that Karin Midular can no longer speak her own mind about her treatment by the man, or the monuments raised in her memory Shakor has decided to create. To me, violence towards the Amarr Empire is increasingly being used as political tool of populism by the Sanmatar. One is expected to maintain a vociferous attitude towards the Empire and the Amarr lest one be condemned as Chief Karin Midular was as a traitor, collaborator or appeaser – an enemy of the people. Inconvenient realities are ignored such as the fact that the Republic fought the Vindication Wars against the Mandate for over a century without achieving victory or success. If the Republic could not defeat a puppet state that had Amarr support then how is the Republic expected to carry out a successful war against the Empire itself? Discussion that seeks to address the actual reality of the Republic position which it finds itself in is labelled as defeatism or treason. What seems to be required by Shakor instead is the blind belief that hating or killing the Amarr is enough, and that somehow with enough of it everything else will follow through to success. That I think is nothing more than just wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/29 "2021-07-27T05:10:56Z")
> [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > I don’t see internecine warfare amongst the Amarr. Minor Houses do wage war with each other with some regularity, I believe. Say in [YC109](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/year-yc109) this made international news: > As the Bleak Lands became more unstable, the situation in the key Kor-Azor region of the Amarr Empire seemed as if it might calm down, as the minor houses of Darabi and Miyan held a peace summit in [Kor-Azor Prime](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/kor-azor-prime). The warfare between these minor houses, who had been fighting over a point of honor concerning the daughter of [Holder](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/holders) Iraj Darabi (as well as a territorial dispute), had been of such concern that Amarr [capsuleers](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/capsuleers) had involved themselves in the diplomacy. Unfortunately, whatever hopes the summit may have promised were dashed as the meeting went on. With the territorial claims over the Nebian system causing uproar among both sides, Mina Darabi was confronted by House Miyan’s Commander Harkan and fainted. The summit soon broke up, deadlocked. Hostilities were resumed only two days later when a Darabi transporter was fired on by Miyan forces, breaking the ceasefire. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/30 "2021-07-27T16:26:17Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jennifer_maxwell/32/319582_2.png) [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jennifer_Maxwell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/31 "2021-07-27T17:09:44Z")
I should have clerified that I meant on a large scale. My apologies. I do know there is relatively low-level conflict in every empire. There certainly is between the Megacorps. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sanmatar-pisses-on-the-rays-grave-again/321365/32 "2021-10-25T17:10:30Z")
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