# Ship/Cargo Scanner to give penalty e.g. suspect timer **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** game-mechanics, modules\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572 "2018-06-17T10:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Pleasure\_Hub\_Node-514](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pleasure_hub_node-514/32/381326_2.png) [@Pleasure\_Hub\_Node-514](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pleasure_Hub_Node-514)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/274 "2018-06-27T20:13:19Z")
Ship scanners use 4 types of consumable ‘empire permits’ as charges. Fail to use a permit or use mismatched empire permit for the region you are in and go suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/275 "2018-06-29T13:09:47Z")
> [@Pleasure\_Hub\_Node-514](#): > > Ship scanners use 4 types of consumable ‘empire permits’ as charges. Fail to use a permit or use mismatched empire permit for the region you are in and go suspect. Sure why not. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/276 "2018-06-29T13:45:21Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > After clicking the scan cargo button, “this will cause you to go suspect! do you wish to continue?”. Which is a bad thing by itself. Exceptions in a mechanism ruin the immersion and enjoyment of the players. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/277 "2018-06-29T13:54:15Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > Which is why I have said several times in this painfully long running thread… they’re treading on a slippery slope. > > If Cargo and Ship Scanners are reclassified as Aggressive modules b/c the user “clearly” intends to do harm to the target after scanning them… > > Then we should also reclassify Combat Probes for the same reason. > > And then we should reclassify narrow band Dscans. > > And then we should reclassify targeting another player. > > And then we should just Flag everyone in the game, b/c ■■■■ it all, everyone is out to get everyone. I am deeming anything that penetrates or “traspasses” the hull of another capsuleer without permission as aggressive behaviour. Q1. Then we should also reclassify Combat Probes for the same reason. They show what you can already see. A1. Combat probes reveal what is already there. And is not agressive behaviour as defined above, as it does not penetrate the hull without permission. Q2. And then we should reclassify narrow band Dscans. A2. Again they do not penetrate the hull, they show what is already there. Q3. And then we should reclassify targeting another player. A3. CCP reclassified targeting team mates “purple boxing”, and those repping in a fight also get suspect timers. While targeting does not penetrate the hull, it does reveal the state of shields, armour and hull. But this is an enhancement of what you can already see. For example if looking really close up at a ship. Q4. And then we should just Flag everyone in the game, b/c ■■■■ it all, everyone is out to get everyone. A4. Then it would not be Highsec and You would not need cargos scanners. You would just have a gate camp and kill everything that goes past silly. That would be like low/null. “But this is high sec”. I don’t know what game you’re playing. And truth be known everyone plays EVE differently. But if you are playing EVE, everyone is out to get everyone silly! Most people “add contact terrible”, the know ganking alliances and corps, becasue “they are out to gank you.” I hope I have answered all you questions. If you have anymore please post again. Ryan ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/278 "2018-06-29T14:06:05Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Which is a bad thing by itself. > Exceptions in a mechanism ruin the immersion and enjoyment of the players. In your opinion. I am a big fan of the team that roleplay and find out all about sleepers. I think thats amazing! I also play EVE becasue I think i am in space. But you do not speak for me or all the players. And neither do I. This is 100% you opinion. Dude I love it when a policemen says i’m going to do something that will blow my ship up. In my opinion everytime someone says “the players” they need to actually put how many players. And add their signatures, not alts. BTW you can turn most un-emersive off. It’s in the settings. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/279 "2018-06-29T14:20:18Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > This is 100% you opinion. no, it’s about game design. The more exceptions are present in a game design, the more the player brain must adapt to the game, in a sense he must learn to switch context. Every time your brain must switch context, it requires a lot of efforts and reduce the immersion, and also since you brain can learn a limited number of contextual rules it means you will be more prone to errors, thus to cases where you fail not because YOU made a mistake, but because the game deign was bad - or at least so you perceive. Just consider every time someone enters your room when you are focused on something (eg a book). I’m not saying different rules are a bad thing. I say having contextual exceptions to a general mechanism (in this case, when you do an action you KNOW in advance if it will make you suspect or not) inherently reduces the game enjoyment, and as such should be avoided when possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/280 "2018-06-29T14:28:07Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > You don’t understand what being flagged as suspect means. It doesn’t mean the flagged pilot did something “suspicious”, or that he did something with any “bad intentions”. It means he did actually damage someone’s assets in some way, not that he _might_ want to do that. He did something like stealing or shooting someone’s assets, not merely acquiring intel on them, whatever the intended use of that intel could be. I think you need to read the whole post again twice. I have had a number of suspect timers awarded to me and blown up. So trrust me I know what it means. The question is, do you? Yes I/we are treading a fine line between game and the law of “traspass”. But please keep to game mechanics. 1. Suspicious; someone on the main gate to jita, scanning cargo. But not suspect. 2. Suspect; taking 1 x carbon from a “yellow” can in space. And flashing for 15mins. I absolutely do want cargo scanners to receive a suspect timer. 15mins usually. So that others can shoot them without concord intervention or not. I have not read your other stuff, it’s just too long. Plus I kinda got upset when you clearly have not understood the 15 or more posts I have painstakingly written. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/281 "2018-06-29T14:29:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Lopez](#): > > The target of scanning isnt just haulers, so the webbing part only effects one thing. You scan mission runners and other ships that may be blinged out. If they have expensive fits a gank or wardeck may be worthwhile. Perhaps the info that now is obtained in complete safety should have some pvp in it. My point exactly. More content. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/282 "2018-06-29T14:55:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > no, it’s about game design. > The more exceptions are present in a game design, the more the player brain must adapt to the game, in a sense he must learn to switch context. > Every time your brain must switch context, it requires a lot of efforts and reduce the immersion, and also since you brain can learn a limited number of contextual rules it means you will be more prone to errors, thus to cases where you fail not because YOU made a mistake, but because the game deign was bad - or at least so you perceive. Just consider every time someone enters your room when you are focused on something (eg a book). > > I’m not saying different rules are a bad thing. I say having contextual exceptions to a general mechanism (in this case, when you do an action you KNOW in advance if it will make you suspect or not) inherently reduces the game enjoyment, and as such should be avoided when possible. Obviously you are into game design. It’s something to be applauded. The design in EVE is amazing. I personally would like to see every type of station in EVE. Which really tied into the “Grandprix”. That for me was true immersion. CCP utilised their massive content library. I really felt like I was racing. It was accessable and provided content for everyone. Gankers included. Now that said in design you have to make tough decisions based on your brief and a little flair and licence. And usually I have my immersion broken in the prix with a pop up, “you are going into hisec…”, but for me it did seem like EVE-like. I welcomed the alert and had the option to turn it off. And I was sufficiently EVE-like to not cause me un-immersion. Now for everyone, this is different. But how many tickets would CCP get if they didn’t have the pop up? Good Design is a careful balancing act. On that note I wish they had a better font. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/283 "2018-06-29T15:11:04Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I personally would like to see every type of station in EVE. Sorry I was not talking about graphical design but mechanism design. That is, to define how the player interact with environment/other players. An example of game design is “player have a module(cyno) that allows another player in team to warp jump to him”, or “ships have a warp strength, when this strength reaches 0 the player can’t activate warp drive.” ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/284 "2018-06-29T15:22:27Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Sorry I was not talking about graphical design but mechanism design. It’s all design. From form to function and everything in between. The picture on the cyno button. The golden ring around. The amount of minerals, the tech level. the time the cost of an item. Everything effects everything. I thought when you were talking about immersion breaking. It was about the wider implications. I don’t belive anything I suggested break emersion. Because I assume those details would be taken care of. Just like everything else is, by design. Nice chatting ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/285 "2018-06-29T15:24:33Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > > [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > > > Which is why I have said several times in this painfully long running thread… they’re treading on a slippery slope. > > > > If Cargo and Ship Scanners are reclassified as Aggressive modules b/c the user “clearly” intends to do harm to the target after scanning them… > > > > Then we should also reclassify Combat Probes for the same reason. > > > > And then we should reclassify narrow band Dscans. > > > > And then we should reclassify targeting another player. > > > > And then we should just Flag everyone in the game, b/c ■■■■ it all, everyone is out to get everyone. > > I am deeming anything that penetrates or “traspasses” the hull of another capsuleer without permission as aggressive behaviour. > > Q1. Then we should also reclassify Combat Probes for the same reason. They show what you can already see. > > A1. Combat probes reveal what is already there. And is not agressive behaviour as defined above, as it does not penetrate the hull without permission. > > Q2. And then we should reclassify narrow band Dscans. > > A2. Again they do not penetrate the hull, they show what is already there. > > Q3. And then we should reclassify targeting another player. > > A3. CCP reclassified targeting team mates “purple boxing”, and those repping in a fight also get suspect timers. While targeting does not penetrate the hull, it does reveal the state of shields, armour and hull. But this is an enhancement of what you can already see. For example if looking really close up at a ship. > > Q4. And then we should just Flag everyone in the game, b/c ■■■■ it all, everyone is out to get everyone. > > A4. Then it would not be Highsec and You would not need cargos scanners. You would just have a gate camp and kill everything that goes past silly. That would be like low/null. “But this is high sec”. > > I don’t know what game you’re playing. And truth be known everyone plays EVE differently. But if you are playing EVE, everyone is out to get everyone silly! > > Most people “add contact terrible”, the know ganking alliances and corps, becasue “they are out to gank you.” > > I hope I have answered all you questions. > > If you have anymore please post again. > > Ryan Scanners do not “penetrate” the hull of a ship, bullets do. While it may appear that the point of this thread is the ability to detect the contents of the ship, the ultimate gripe is the fact that once someone sees valuable contents, they kill the ship to get at those contents. So really, the point is being shot at. There is nothing wrong with knowing the contents of a ship if you let them fly off into the night. Dscan and Combat Probes are just more tools for picking your target. Scanners tell you if they have any good loot. Dscan tells you which way they ran. And Probes help you find their hiding spot. You know how we’ve never been able to keep sharks in captivity for any length of time, b/c they would rather starve than be fed by hand. It’s because they’re predators, and they want to hunt their prey. Well, if you’re a juicy target trying to hide in a deep safe or inside a mission pocket… Making someone use their Dscan and Probes to find you is just making their hunt more entertaining and gratifying when they finally do find you and kill you. So… If you’re going to make Scanners illegal b/c it’s a passive tool being used to determine whether you’re worth killing, then we should also outlaw Dscan and Probes b/c they’re passive tools used to hunt down your prey. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ryan_b_thiesant/32/293156_2.png) [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ryan_B_Thiesant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/286 "2018-06-29T15:55:01Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > So… If you’re going to make Scanners illegal b/c it’s a passive tool being used to determine whether you’re worth killing, then we should also outlaw Dscan and Probes b/c they’re passive tools used to hunt down your prey. You have made your point. I don’t agree. I answered your questions. And gave a clear definition of what i am talking about. I get it really. thanks for your imput. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/287 "2018-06-29T16:14:42Z")
> [@Marcus\_Gideon](#): > > If you’re going to make Scanners illegal b/c it’s a passive tool being used to determine whether you’re worth killing, then we should also outlaw Dscan and Probes b/c they’re passive tools used to hunt down your prey. please make your own topic for this interesting proposal. I’m pretty sure people complaining about cloaky campers would agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/288 "2018-06-29T16:59:32Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I think you need to read the whole post again twice. > [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I have not read your other stuff, it’s just too long. So you tell me I should read your whole post not once, but twice (which I did, btw) and in the same post you say you did not bother to read my replies which, had you done it, would have allowed you to understand what I was saying? And you expect others to take seriously anything you may say when you have zero interest in understanding why they disagree and prefer to waste yours and everybody else’s time repeating yourself instead? ROFLMAO 🤣 🤣 > [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > So trrust me I know what it means. Maybe you know what it means in the sense of what happens when you get a timer, but you don’t know what it means in the sense of what Crimewatch timers are intended for when you keep trying to make it seem logical that cargo scanners should get a suspect timer just because they “infringe your hull”. This can be seen in all your posts, but I’ll pick something you just said that perfectly illustrates how self-centred you are: > [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I am deeming anything that penetrates or “traspasses” the hull of another capsuleer without permission as aggressive behaviour. > > Q1. Then we should also reclassify Combat Probes for the same reason. They show what you can already see. > > A1. Combat probes reveal what is already there. And is not agressive behaviour as defined above, as it does not penetrate the hull without permission. Exactly, YOU are deeming as “aggressive” things that are NOT considered an act of aggression in the context of Crimewatch (and for good reason, not because of an oversight). THAT is what you don’t understand about what getting a suspect timer means. Cargo scanners also reveal what is already there, btw, so that remark you made couldn’t be more pointless. But the really interesting thing here is that you argue that combat probes shouldn’t warrant a suspect timer because they don’t match YOUR perception of “aggressiveness”, while at the same time ignoring that your perception of “aggressiveness” doesn’t match what Crimewatch considers an act of aggression in the first place either… What matters is not what _you_ deem as “aggressive”, what matters is what Crimewatch considers an act of aggression and whether cargo scanners fit that concept or not. The fact is that they simply don’t, and _why_ that’s the case is what you don’t understand. You keep talking about being “aggressive” as if that was enough to warrant a suspect timer, but it’s not, and instead of understanding why it’s not, you keep thinking it’s those that disagree with you who don’t understand why you think cargo scanners are “aggressive”… > [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I kinda got upset when you clearly have not understood the 15 or more posts I have painstakingly written. Says the guy that not only doesn’t understand the replies to him, but doesn’t even bother to read them in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/289 "2018-06-30T06:51:15Z")
> [@Ryan\_B\_Thiesant](#): > > I am deeming anything that penetrates or “traspasses” the hull of another capsuleer without permission as aggressive behaviour You are making up broad definitions willy nilly to fit your agenda on a single subject. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/290 "2018-06-30T14:13:43Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Exactly, YOU are deeming as “aggressive” things that are NOT considered an act of aggression in the context of Crimewatch (and for good reason, not because of an oversight). THAT is what you don’t understand about what getting a suspect timer means. Yes, he says that the aggression mechanics should be changed. THAT is what you don’t understand with this proposal. Indeed he proposes that something HE considers aggressive should also be considered aggressive by crimewatch. What’s wrong with that ? He does not say crimewatch considers this action aggressive now, otherwise this proposal would be pointless. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > The fact is that they simply don’t, and _why_ that’s the case is what you don’t understand. No, everybody knows they don’t, otherwise they would not propose it to do. WTF is wrong with you ? You are making this proposal say the opposite of what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/291 "2018-06-30T14:39:47Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Yes, he says that the aggression mechanics should be changed. THAT is what you don’t understand with this proposal. Of course that’s what he says and of course I’ve understood that from the very beginning. What have I said that makes you think not? > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Indeed he proposes that something HE considers aggressive should also be considered aggressive by crimewatch. What’s wrong with that ? What’s wrong is pretending this kind of aggressive behaviour is akin to what Crimewatch currently considers acts of aggression to try to justify the change and ignore that, once you go that route, there are other things that could also be considered aggressive for the very same subjective reasons and hence warrant a suspect timer as well. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No, everybody knows they don’t, otherwise they would not propose it to do. Sorry, but that they propose the change in no way proves they understand cargo scanners “aggressive” behaviour isn’t akin to what Crimewatch currently considers acts of aggression. Actually the way they argue about it being an “infringement of the hull” to try to justify the change would indicate they don’t… > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > WTF is wrong with you ? > You are making this proposal say the opposite of what he said. Exactly, WTF is wrong with me? WTF are you talking about now? Where have I said anything that might remotely make this proposal say the opposite of what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/292 "2018-06-30T15:50:55Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Of course that’s what he says and of course I’ve understood that from the very beginning. What have I said that makes you think not? No you don’t . Because you keep mixing the term “aggressive” with the term “criminal/suspect to crimewatch rules”, which you would not if you had tried to understand the proposal. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Sorry, but that they propose the change in no way proves they understand cargo scanners “aggressive” behaviour isn’t akin to what Crimewatch currently considers acts of aggression. Actually yes. The fact that they propose something that is not present proves they know it is not present. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Exactly, WTF is wrong with me? WTF are you talking about now? The fact that you are trolling by not discussing the topic but another topic you are imagining when people already told you you got it wrong. NOBODY said scanners give suspect ATM. NOBODY said crimewatch consider them as aggressive ATM. When people say “aggressive” it is obvious to anyone who want to understand and discuss the topic that this is from a player perspective. You are just trolling by using the wrong meaning when people already told you you were wrong. So scanners ARE aggressive from a player perspective. They are used almost only in order to find ships to destroy. The fact that they are not rendering the user suspect/criminal does not change a thing to this. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Gideon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_gideon/32/141713_2.png) [@Marcus\_Gideon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Gideon)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/293 "2018-06-30T15:56:54Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So scanners ARE aggressive from a player perspective. They are used almost only in order to find ships to destroy. The fact that they are not rendering the user suspect/criminal does not change a thing to this. Which gets right back to the Slippery Slope I mentioned… You whine about Scanners being used to find ships to destroy. But Combat Probes are used for the same purposes. And narrow beam Dscans for those who can’t afford to fit Probes. So if we give in to your whining now about harmless Scanners, next week or next month there will be threads calling for Probes and Dscan to also Flag someone. Because “clearly” they are only used to find ships to destroy. And you want to outlaw the hunt, instead of the current policy which only outlaws the kill. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572.md?page=15)