# Ship/Cargo Scanner to give penalty e.g. suspect timer **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** game-mechanics, modules\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572 "2018-06-17T10:36:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/314 "2018-07-02T22:17:05Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Making scanners go suspect would be inconsistent with the rest of crimewatch and the rest of scanning/intel. We understand you refuse to accept that any information in scanning that does not go beyond listening for signals that ships send out of their hulls is not equal to sending signals into a hull and trying to get information from inside it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/315 "2018-07-02T22:20:55Z")
So let me put it this way, Why is a SCANNER penetrating a hull aggressive? What makes a hull so different to a can or mobile structure? Going down this route takes longer, but at the end it’s going to fall back on either the expectations of privacy (which is false) or ‘just cause’. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/316 "2018-07-02T22:21:40Z")
You mean…‘just cause’. ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/317 "2018-07-02T22:24:24Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You mean…‘just cause’. Exactly the point. ‘just cause’ you don’t accept a different view it is thus wrong. You don’t actually present reasons why changing the others would convert them into penetration of the outer hull. You just assume they will be considered as penetrating the outer hull ‘just cause’ and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/318 "2018-07-02T22:28:40Z")
No. I’m saying your view is ‘just cause’. A can, mtu or ship are all just pixels. They all have an owner as far as the game cares. What’s the difference? When it comes to scanning, why treat them differently? ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/319 "2018-07-02T22:35:40Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > No. I’m saying your view is ‘just cause’. And your view is ‘just cause’ as well but you don’t accept that. quid pro quo. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > A can, mtu or ship are all just pixels. They all have an owner as far as the game cares. What’s the difference? When it comes to scanning, why treat them differently? Now lets ignore the declaration that everything in the internet is just pixels as it’s off topic in the first place. A Jetcan is an unlocked container which displays it’s contents should you be near enough due to the fact that it’s flimsy and will explode if not collected within 2 hours. You get close enough you can look inside. An anchored can (also known as a secure container) is fortified to not be exploding and can remain in space. You don’t get to look inside by just being close enough. The only way you get to look inside is by scanning. The anchored can actively prevents itself from being looked into without owner permission or a good hacker skill in which you can guess the access code. How do you equate looking into one and the other as different? Just these two. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/320 "2018-07-02T22:46:06Z")
I also can’t look inside an mtu, or a fleet hangar I don’t have access to, without scanning. But thats to do with not having access to take and nothing to do with scanning. ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/321 "2018-07-02T22:47:20Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I also can’t look inside an mtu, or a fleet hangar I don’t have access to, without scanning. But thats to do with not having access to take and nothing to do with scanning. No, we’re not talking about MTU, fleet hangars, or other things. Just differences between a jetcan and a secure container. Try to remain on that if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/322 "2018-07-02T22:48:39Z")
I just did then. No permission to take. No looky looky without scanner. ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/323 "2018-07-02T22:50:41Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > No permission to take. No looky looky without scanner. Now why should we consider the “looky looky” as not actively trying to penetrate the hull? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/324 "2018-07-02T22:51:28Z")
Wrong question. Why should we consider it aggressive? ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/325 "2018-07-02T22:57:42Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Why should we consider it aggressive? We’re not considering it aggressive. We consider it suspicious. “Commander, an active scanning beacon is targeting our ship and has penetrated our hull.” ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/326 "2018-07-02T23:04:34Z")
Well looking into a jet can is suspicious. So is scanning a ships fit. Or probing someone down. But you don’t go suspect for suspicious behaviour. You go suspect for theft, shooting peoples stuff and directly aiding in a fight you’re not part of. ---
**Author:** ![Omnathious\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnathious_deninard/32/266675_2.png) [@Omnathious\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnathious_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/327 "2018-07-02T23:10:18Z")
So what would you do differently if such a thing were implemented? You have a freighter full of goods 15km from the gate and suddenly a ship turns flashy yellow, what do you do? ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/328 "2018-07-02T23:19:04Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Well looking into a jet can is suspicious. This is where we have an issue. We are saying using your eyeballs is not suspicious. We are saying using a device to look into an area you don’t have permission to by evading the block is. Doubly so when there is a second door preventing you from seeing into a location. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/329 "2018-07-02T23:28:02Z")
Lol quick change in direction there… Eyes, devices, no difference. You become privy to the contents within just the same. Unless using a ship scanner should also cause suspect. And scanning a jet can/mtu/secure can should cause suspect. And using probes on the above etc. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/330 "2018-07-03T10:49:09Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Eyes, devices, no difference. A device that allows you to access something your eyes (or actually your passive sensors) have no access. That is, a device that allows you to bypass the defense people made. People call it suspicious because you actively are bypassing other people’s defenses (against intel). > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Lol quick change in direction there… You really need to drop that habit of blaming people because they answer your question. This is really childish and makes you look a lot like a troll. Again, if you don’t want an answer, then don’t ask a question. That is hypocritical of you. You asked why people consider the scanners aggressive. Someone tells you why it should get yourself a suspect flag. “Lol quick change in direction there…” is your answer… dumbass. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Why is a SCANNER penetrating a hull aggressive? What makes a hull so different to a can or mobile structure? > > Going down this route takes longer, but at the end it’s going to fall back on either the expectations of privacy (which is false) or ‘just cause’. So your opinion on the topic is “I don’t want it, just because”. If you start a discussion by saying “it can’t go anywhere but to what I think”, this is not a discussion. So don’t ever ask questions. just leave the topic for people who actually want to discuss, there is no point in wasting time with someone who is right even when he is wrong. Then why does it look like an aggressive module to me ? Simply because it is only used, in HS, in order to acquire intel on people, so that you know if it is worth shooting them afterwards. It allows you to reduce the cost of ganking, and/or to give this intel to other people (as a neutral alt). It is a factor of imbalance between gankers and ganked, as the gankers don’t have anything to lose besides what they are willingly losing. With suspect triggered by scan modules, at least the bankers will have something to lose more often than only catalysts when a target is found. So, to me, it is aggressive from a balance perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/331 "2018-07-03T11:07:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > A device that allows you to access something your eyes (or actually your passive sensors) have no access. > > That is, a device that allows you to bypass the defense people made. > People call it suspicious because you actively are bypassing other people’s defenses (against intel). The eyes miner art was referring to is looking into peoples cans. This isn’t passive. It’s as deliberate as scanning someone. Also, what defences? When I’m flying around what defences do i have for scanning to bypass? If there was something i could fit that block scans then you’d be onto something. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So your opinion on the topic is “I don’t want it, just because”. If you start a discussion by saying “it can’t go anywhere but to what I think”, this is not a discussion. So don’t ever ask questions. just leave the topic for people who actually want to discuss, there is no point in wasting time with someone who is right even when he is wrong. Nope. From the very beginning, Scanners causing suspect is inconsistent with both crimewatch and other scanners/probes/indirect assistance/scouting etc You folks keep going on about suspicious behaviour but going ‘suspect’ has nothing to do with suspicious behaviour. It takes very deliberate and direct damage or theft to go suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/332 "2018-07-03T11:09:19Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Simply because it is only used, in HS, in order to acquire intel on people, so that you know if it is worth shooting them afterwards. It allows you to reduce the cost of ganking, and/or to give this intel to other people (as a neutral alt). > It is a factor of imbalance between gankers and ganked, as the gankers don’t have anything to lose besides what they are willingly losing. With suspect triggered by scan modules, at least the bankers will have something to lose more often than only catalysts when a target is found. > So, to me, it is aggressive from a balance perspective. Waaaagh, Gankers! Just one more nerf. Thanks for admitting it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572/333 "2018-07-03T11:11:18Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > The eyes miner art was referring to is looking into peoples cans. This isn’t passive. It’s as deliberate as scanning someone. nope. This is passive. he is just looking at what is shown on the can. You don’t need anything for this, even a capsule can do it. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Scanners causing suspect is inconsistent with both crimewatch and other scanners/probes/indirect assistance/scouting etc nope. What make suspect or not is not consistent. It’s just arbitrary choices fro CCP. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Waaaagh, Gankers! Just one more nerf. > > Thanks for admitting it. Because somebody else than gankers use scanners on ppl in HS ? You just discovered something here ? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ship-cargo-scanner-to-give-penalty-e-g-suspect-timer/83572.md?page=17)