# Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137 "2022-09-07T16:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/249 "2022-09-12T14:48:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > posters who lob direct personal attacks at me for having an opinion they disagree with. " Do I detect the smell of burning martyr ?" ( a great quote from John Cleese ) ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/250 "2022-09-12T14:58:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not unsubstantiated > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s speculative, sure, There is not even a hint from ccp of an Infinity-like server for non-chinese citizens. That makes it unsubstantiated, and of course speculative. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s only “controversial” in that you don’t like the idea I indeed don’t like the idea. I don’t see it being any sort of a solution. It’s an experiment by a non-CCP company to see if they can bolster up the number of subscribers over there - numbers that have always been significantly lower than on TQ, moreover stuck in a 1v1 situation in nullsec for many years. But it’s not my personal opinion that makes it controversial, but the combined opinions of a significant and commercially important number of EvE players. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You literally stand shoulder to shoulder with posters who lob direct personal attacks at me for having an opinion they disagree with More correct would be to say that I happen to share their views on PvP in hisec, and ganking in particular. I try not to lob personal insults at you, but then it’s 1) not easy given the amount of odd posts you write repeating the same stuff over and over again like a broken record and 2) I have no idea what you consider a personal insult, since I don’t know you, have never met you, etc. Moreover, I will not change my view on a subject because an other person sharing that same view has said something to you that you don’t like. My view is independent from anyone else’s. I hope you understand that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > From my perspective it seems like you just want people who you disagree with to shut up. Oh, I certainly wish they would stop repeating and spamming, and moving the subject of threads to serve their own agendas. I wish these forums would be a place of polite exchange instead of a barrel of fermenting emotions. But it’s not up to me to make that happen. Don’t take it too seriously, it’s only me after all, but do try to see what the consequences of this feverish forum activity may be, and act accordingly. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/251 "2022-09-12T15:08:19Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > In EVE, there isn’t just the _sole_ activity of destroying spaceships. I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree… ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/252 "2022-09-12T15:08:45Z")
(post deleted by author) ---
**Author:** ![Faldor\_Tivianne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faldor_tivianne/32/405000_2.png) [@Faldor\_Tivianne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faldor_Tivianne)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/253 "2022-09-12T15:25:57Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > > > There are so many players that want to engage in acceptable PvP. Yet, you choose to shoot Ventures. > > That Venture is mining ore, that will be converted into a destroyer or cruiser. If I shoot the Venture now…I am PvP destroying that destroyer or cruiser before it ever leaves dock. Let’s be frank, this is a rationalization. I saw this not too long ago, a 2 day old player, who was in 0.4 space with a venture, basically fish in a barrel. The exchange I saw in local way “why, I’m nothing, don’t kill me.” The response, “Eve is pain.” We all know the reason he was killed was to **get a notch on zkillboard**. However he contributed nothing to the game, he just came off as a snotty player to the new player. That is not how we retain people. I remember how clueless I was when I started, was mining in a tristan as I really didn’t know any better. Got blown up, and he mocked me for mining in that ship. The guy who blew me up, also transferred over funds worth 3 times what my ship was worth. I thought it was a quality move, and helped me to better understand the game. I’m not saying for people to do that, but you could at least be less snotty to brand new players. There are other ways to handle that situation. Btw, I transferred some money to the player that happened to, so as to show not everyone is like that. I’m not sure if the player is still around, but a little good will often goes a long way. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/254 "2022-09-12T15:29:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Doubtful since I think a lot of newer players would be happy to see a fresh server with veterans not decades ahead in assets. They can try EvE Echoes. It has most of the elements you wish for… Funny that you deny that many people think that a non-pvp hisec is bad, given the opposition you get. They can even try Singularity, where they don’t have any impact on the game - which is what they wish, no ? Splitting up a single server, with today’s numbers, will not lead to anything but two dead servers: dwindling numbers for the veterans, a dead economy on the other. As to “veterans decades ahead”, that’s the perfect excuse not to go to school and get a degree, ya know ?.. It’s the silliest argument ever invented for these forums. But I am not going to write a monograph on that subject, tyvm. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But you don’t call them out on it. You don’t threaten them with moderation. It’s not my job to call them out. And I’m not a moderator. I made no “threat with ISD’s” to you, merely pointed out that you were posting an unsubstantiated, speculative, and controversial “wish”. I certainly am not in a position to direct any ISD. If that makes you nervous, then maybe you should think before you post ? After all, these aren’t your personal forums, and judging from other threads, there’s never a shortage of replies - which do not add to any closure of any discussion. All that being said, and as a personal reminder to you, I don’t take sides, neither for you nor against you. Each post is judged on its own merit. You know you get likes for reasonable posts. If it’s one of the “here we go again” kind, then not. Oh, and you can let go now… ![spinning-dog-playful](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/9/7/d979d8d0fbc177bbc8c4606ec9e392feb21561cd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/256 "2022-09-12T15:40:43Z")
I feel you are presenting the same old false dilemma that many here present. It is one in which looking after noobs means nerfing a bunch of playstyles, as if solutions were mutually exclusive. Fact is, the failure of the game to adequately prepare noobs is not the fault of existing PvP-ers in the game. You really cant solve the problem of noob unawareness by nerfing existing playstyles that the noobs themselves may well enjoy in due course. That is self defeating. Rather, it would be better if noobs had a training _outside_ of the existing Eve realm for up to 30 days ( a period they can end any time they like but have to end at 30 days ) and were _then_ unleashed on the game. That is no different to many games out there…where you don’t start the ‘real’ game until you have completed the tutorial. Which can be quite lengthy ! In Skyrim, for example, the game does not really ‘start’ until you kill the first dragon…which can be hours into it. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/257 "2022-09-12T15:43:47Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > So much vitriole … can you tone it down just a notch ? Pretty please ?? In this case? Absolutely 100% not. ---
**Author:** ![Faldor\_Tivianne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faldor_tivianne/32/405000_2.png) [@Faldor\_Tivianne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faldor_Tivianne)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/258 "2022-09-12T15:44:24Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You really cant solve the problem of noob unawareness by nerfing existing playstyles that the noobs themselves may well enjoy in due course. That is a false dichotomy, no one is asking anyone to nerf existing playstyles. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/259 "2022-09-12T15:48:03Z")
> [@Faldor\_Tivianne](#): > > That is a false dichotomy, no one is asking anyone to nerf existing playstyles. But you are. You are expecting pirates not to _be_ pirates. Should they now go up to people and say ’ Excuse me, good sir, but you don’t mind if we rob you ?’ Eve is a cutthroat game. I’m all for noobs being better prepared for it…but it should not _stop_ being a cutthroat game just because some noobs can’t cope. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/261 "2022-09-12T15:51:50Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s a common view on pretty much any MMO I get that, honestly I do. But this is EvE. It’s a different MMO, not to say unique in its approach. Conscious choice is a key factor in this game - which is not acquired by doing some dumb PvE that is meant as an income source in New Eden and pretend that that is _the game_. That new people fail to see the larger picture _and_ position themselves correctly in this game is not their fault, EvE is huge by comparison to any other MMO. Defining goals, assessing risks, and seeing that playing this game requires to go into some kind of survival mindset are all parts of that famous learning curve of ours. Once the achievable goal (in the time frame set by the new player) is defined there’s no reason for a newer player not to be able to compete in that role. That’s the real role veterans should have in new player retention, constantly building that awareness with the rookies (ccp is clearly not doing it at the moment). The worst thing we can do to them is to tell them fairy tales about hisec safety and about wicked veterans who can’t be competed with. It’s simply a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/262 "2022-09-12T16:01:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again, this historically was not a problem as for much of the early game ganking was not done for sport so ganking noobs provided no benefit. I don’t see _anything_ about ganking for profit in James 315’s 2012 manifesto. It is targeted at miners…_all_ miners. Ganking people for non-profit reasons has been going on for _at least_ 10 years. So we have yet another example of you selectively ‘remembering’ stuff that doesn’t accord with the actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Faldor\_Tivianne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faldor_tivianne/32/405000_2.png) [@Faldor\_Tivianne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faldor_Tivianne)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/263 "2022-09-12T16:02:03Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > > [@Faldor\_Tivianne](#): > > > > That is a false dichotomy, no one is asking anyone to nerf existing playstyles. > > But you are. You are expecting pirates not to _be_ pirates. Should they now go up to people and say ’ Excuse me, good sir, but you don’t mind if we rob you ?’ Eve is a cutthroat game. I’m all for noobs being better prepared for it…but it should not _stop_ being a cutthroat game just because some noobs can’t cope. That is an overread of what I stated. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/265 "2022-09-12T16:12:18Z")
> [@Faldor\_Tivianne](#): > > I remember how clueless I was when I started, was mining in a tristan as I really didn’t know any better. Got blown up, and he mocked me for mining in that ship. The guy who blew me up, also transferred over funds worth 3 times what my ship was worth. I thought it was a quality move, and helped me to better understand the game. I’ve helped out noobs in a similar manner…some of whom left the game anyway, even despite joining a corp that provided free Ventures if theirs got blapped, and despite there being mining fleets and intel to protect them. Fact is, some people simply decide the game isn’t for them…and would leave even if there was zero ganking. I almost left the game due to sheer boredom, within the first few weeks. It was an effort to keep going. Ironically…it was being ganked a few weeks later ( and wanting revenge ) that kept me in the game ! Yes…there are noobs who stay in the game because they got ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/266 "2022-09-12T16:19:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > just remembering further back than the propaganda you’ve read about. You account you are posting on hasn’t even logged into the game for 2.5 times longer than _my_ memory of the game. Nothing since January 2020. How about posting on an account that is currently _active_ in the game rather than sniping from the sidelines ? Personally I think that only currently active Omega accounts should be allowed to post here. What does anything really matter to someone who has not logged in for 2.5 years ! ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/268 "2022-09-12T16:27:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > EDIT: I just want to point out that it’s amusing that you are of the view that new players shouldn’t concern themselves with what assets older players have built up, but at the same time you think that if a noob can endlessly mine veldspar in peace that’d be game-breakingly offensive. 🤣 You read that wrong. I said neither of those things. But since you bring it up, here are my thoughts on that. What vets have stashed in their hangars is of no consequence. What they DO have as an advantage is that they can play in different capacities/roles whatever you want to call it. Many of them are fully cross-trained for ships and weapons. But … they can only fly one ship at a time per account, and in a particular role. A newer player that flies the same one, and is similarly skilled for that single role, _can_ compete. And it’s only a matter of time, as it was for all of us, to increase the number of viable and competitive roles. I’m not offended by rookies mining veldspar. I am saying we are doing them a disservice of not teaching them how to EvE properly, get away from the veldspar, and embrace the game and all the passions that come with it. A concluding remark for today: it appears to me that players who are comfortable in the knowledge that multiple roles are required to “EvE properly” are not the ones complaining about the _nature_ of the game. They picked a role for income early on (as they should), and then developed other roles that they simply love doing, funding those with the initially chosen income role. That knowledge is the one that should be spread around, to make well-rounded EvE players that can continue to keep EvE vibrant and exciting, instead of striving to be insular and frustrated by the presence of others. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/269 "2022-09-12T16:30:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I have more than 20 active omega accounts How about posting on one that shows you are actually currently active in the game ? The chances that you have genuinely not had a kill or a loss in 2.5 years is pretty remote…so you are posting on an inactive account. And as Lucas Kell is not actually active in the game _and has not been for years_…I have no reason whatever to take his words with any seriousness. I can’t be bothered with someone who is not actually playing the game in whatever alt they are using and who wont post on their main. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/271 "2022-09-12T16:41:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I _genuinely_ do not care whether you take my words seriously If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t be posting. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/272 "2022-09-12T16:44:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > OK, so teach them that. But what’s wrong with some choosing to just do that and not wanting to do anything else? How are you negatively impacted if someone wants to mine veldspar all day and not get blown up? Being insular, pretending it to be anything but an MMO on a single shard with PvP as its main feature, including hisec. Not getting blown up is not a god given right, whoever you are. That choice to try to mine veldspar as long as it takes all the dangers and consequences into consideration is of course fine, and perfectly EvE. Asking and demanding to lessen the dangers and consequences makes one anything but an EvE player. Not to mention the multitude of threads on the subject, the constant whining and denying, and all the toxicity (from both sides) that comes with it. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/274 "2022-09-12T16:49:04Z")
They would if I were to gank them, which is my freedom of choice. I can be ganked, and have been - there’s no choice in that aspect, in New Eden. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=14)