# Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137 "2022-09-07T16:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mirjana\_Popovic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mirjana_popovic/32/332730_2.png) [@Mirjana\_Popovic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mirjana_Popovic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/22 "2022-09-07T17:22:50Z")
True, I see the point, but… Is it fair that when the hen births the eggs, the rooster goes out looking for watermelons in his underpants, only to find a typewriter with no ink in it? I say no… ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/23 "2022-09-07T17:33:10Z")
> [@TheDopeMan](#): > > What the OP means, is that no one should complain about grieving new players in highsec while they undock because he doesn’t have the nerve or skill to go shoot people’s spaceships in dangerous low sec or Null. that would require him to have a roaming fleet or go solo and be ganked himself by a small fleet. I don’t think you quite understand what I mean Dope Man, although I do think that people should not complain about being brought into fights in a spaceship fighting game. I would not use the term “griefing” to describe any of the situations that I brought up. Vets hanging out in “newbie” zones and killing new players is against the EULA is it not, and considered “griefing”. IIRC it is a ban able offence. Shooting someone in a corvette because they have faction modules in the cargo haul, and then running off with dropped modules is just EvE operating as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/25 "2022-09-07T17:39:31Z")
You are correct in that any school areas or career agents or any space that is intertwined for the soe arc, including hek, if someone new is attacked or has a mission item stolen. It is greifing and bannable Outside of that, pvp is safe to do ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/26 "2022-09-07T17:40:22Z")
Apparently its toxic in HS. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/27 "2022-09-07T17:42:06Z")
It used to bother me, and ive had friends leave, but im still here, i just dont let it bother me anymore, if i get ganked, oh well, my fault ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/28 "2022-09-07T17:46:39Z")
> [@Mirjana\_Popovic](#): > > not saying its not, Im saying for example 10 catalysts on a, lets say, badger, that belongs to a rookie player is a sledgehammer. Sure, can exist, but the penalty that the ganker experiences should be WAY higher then a sec status hit… Id say the ganker should experience a big, fat, juicy wallet hit as penalty 🙂 25x the value of his ship with mods… If the catalyst is 2m with meta mods, then 50m taxation on suicide ganks… + massive sec status hit + police response time in hi sec to be the same all over the place as it is defined for a 1.0 system 😃 Mirjana, I tell you true, T. Elliot is an alt. If there were huge penalties for attacking newbies while hauling things, I would never haul things with my industrial character, and continuously recycle newbie alts. Your idea seems to be so easily gamed that it is not worth mentioning. (When ever I read these suggestions that are so gameable by vets I tend to assume that the suggestion is coming from a vet who is tryign to get a fast one past the devs) ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/29 "2022-09-07T17:49:52Z")
I think its also people who wanna try eve, have known about eve, read stories about eve, but come here and wanna change it to match other mmos. Eve is its own animal in the mmo world ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/30 "2022-09-07T17:52:27Z")
Do your due diligence, make instadock/instaundock bookmarks, scout gates, pay attention, don’t AFK. That’s literally all it takes to not get ganked. My mission running toon has only lost a single ship in 5 years, and it was 100% my fault. I got distracted for like 30 seconds and forgot I was cloaked on a gate and came out of cloak. That 30 seconds is all it took… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/31 "2022-09-07T17:55:42Z")
I dont feel it will be much longer. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/32 "2022-09-07T18:05:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It depends though, right? Like if you were a veteran basketball player and you went up to random kids when they are playing in a park and you just grabbed the ball and started smashing them, that would be toxic behaviour. > > Extend it to something like you being a professional boxer, running up to kids practicing on a punching bag and just smashing them in the face repeatedly, that too would be toxic, right? > > The context matters in determining if it’s toxic. In a very broad sense it depends on the context. But the thing is, the context of EvE is EvE means everyone vs everyone. The devs has marked some specific behavior as off limits (attacking newbies in newbie zones for example), but every situation that I brought up is just EvE operating as intended. Professions boxers smashing people who are just working the bags sounds like assault to me, and is a ridiculous example. However if you get in the ring with Ali, you had better be ready for a fight. If you undock, even in your mining barge, you have to recognize that there are people who will try to gank you. I afk mine a lot. Really I spend a lot of time afk mining. But I afk mine in quiet out of the way places, and my barge is all tank with combat drones buzzing around looking for a fight while I am doing something else. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/33 "2022-09-07T18:25:19Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I am amazed at the number of threads that I see everyday in the forums that revolve around that notion that it is toxic behavior to shoot people’s spaceships in EvE. Me too…especially when one considers that practically every system you go to has NPC pirates performing that exact same function un-invited. Why would players _not_ be able to do what NPC pirates can do ? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/34 "2022-09-07T18:37:50Z")
> [@Mirjana\_Popovic](#): > > True, I see the point, but… > > Is it fair that when the hen births the eggs, the rooster goes out looking for watermelons in his underpants, only to find a typewriter with no ink in it? > > I say no… I will assume this is addressed to me. I have to admit Mirjana, I have no idea what the above quote means, but I say if the rooster does not have any ink for his typewriter it is up to him to quit trying to romp in the melon patch. He needs to go out and buy his own new ribbon while the hen is sitting on the eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/35 "2022-09-07T19:17:58Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Me too…especially when one considers that practically every system you go to has NPC pirates performing that exact same function un-invited. Why would players _not_ be able to do what NPC pirates can do ? Because NPCs are just AI scripts and not actual people, so it’s impossible for them to be sociopaths and griefers since those are human aspects, ergo they can’t actually be hostile to and hurt other people. Getting angry at NPCs would be like getting angry at a machine after you shove your fingers into its moving gears. The goal should not necessarily be to try to eliminate the ability to attack other players in the game. That would be like trying to eliminate the production of bullets to ensure that there are no wars and gun violence in real life; people would just use other things that aren’t bullets to kill each other. The goal should be to enforce a moral imperative so that people can’t be toxic sociopaths and griefers to begin with. We can eliminate toxicity by implementing a system of verbal consent to being attacked. To anyone who attacks other players without this verbal consent, penalties can be applied (e.g. wallet fines, escalating to bans, civil lawsuits, reporting to real-life authorities for criminal charges, etc.), which would train people to be subservient to an agreeable moral code in order to improve everybody’s gaming experience. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/37 "2022-09-07T19:21:33Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > NPCs are just AI scripts and not actual people, so it’s impossible for them to be sociopaths and griefers since those are human aspects OK…so the code for them is written by sociopaths instead 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/38 "2022-09-07T19:21:55Z")
Tbh attacking a person is pretty much a sign of being mean, regardless of motivation. I bet a lot of war targets, in NS wars as well as HS ones quit all the time when they lose. More empty spaces in Hilmar’s wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/39 "2022-09-07T19:22:58Z")
Does stealing someone’s mission item or valuable loot count as attacking? 🤭 😇 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/40 "2022-09-07T19:23:58Z")
In some ways its worse. Property theft is a direct assault on Holy Capitalism. Ex-Communication (banning but without account cancellation) is almost too good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/41 "2022-09-07T19:25:51Z")
Good thing I never subbed then. 😏 Do they ban all accounts or only the one performing the act? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/42 "2022-09-07T19:26:21Z")
Depends on the average spend on the others, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/43 "2022-09-07T19:27:17Z")
I never subbed any of them ever nor plan to, not into financially supporting incompetent corporate leadership. 😛 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=3)