# Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137 "2022-09-07T16:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/44 "2022-09-07T19:28:08Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > Does stealing someone’s mission item or valuable loot count as attacking? Under Destiny’s rule that AI have no sociopathy, as we’re _all_ just simulants in a simulated world then _everyone_ is an NPC in some game being played by a spotty 113th dimensional schoolboy on his Hyperdimensional Quantum PC…so fire away ! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/45 "2022-09-07T19:28:56Z")
Not subbing or buying anything after the New Player Identification period means you are by default griefing and a full ban will ensue. Cant have you bothering the noobs now. That would result in UNACCEPTABLE financial LOSSES ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/46 "2022-09-07T19:30:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > But it’s functionally no different to going up to someone in-game who is not fighting you and just smashing the heck out of them for no reason, right? No, it is pretty different. There is a clear expectation that anyone can attack any one at any time in the EvE game. I have never been a member of a boxing club, but I have gone to a kempo and a judo school and there the expectation is everyone is very disciplined about attaching each other, and even full on sparing is only allowed in controlled situations where everyone agrees that they participate. This is the opposite of the non consensual pvp nature of EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/47 "2022-09-07T19:33:30Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > OK…so the code for them is written by sociopaths instead The code is usually written by workers hired and instructed to write it, so not necessarily. However, anyone who creates the idea for a game in which other players can be attacked without their consent and/or owns/funds the project should probably be held liable and face civil/criminal charges in real life, assuming that we can evolve our judicial system to prosecute such actions. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/48 "2022-09-07T19:34:11Z")
Guess I’ll be back to Counter-Strike: Source then or maybe start up some new game. Have hundreds of never before played games on Steam and GoG that were given away or bought dirt cheap when they were on discount. 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/49 "2022-09-07T19:34:41Z")
Worrying about “toxic” behavior, moral codes, or trying to limit player actions based on people’s perceptions of other people is pretty much a fool’s game. All that really matters is, what’s the end result? Some players in other games consider it “toxic” that other players multi-box. In EVE it’s the norm. Some players consider it griefing when other players run up and start mining “their” crafting node in a game, right in front of them! When they were _obviously_ just about to mine that node themselves so it was ‘theirs’, clearly. If you made the entire game perma-green safety, some players would find a way to call it toxic when someone else pulled into the same asteroid field and starting mining ‘their’ asteroids. Just look at the end results - which have been consistent for years now. Only a small percent of EVE players even bother to engage in PvP. Most of the activity in game is PvE and economy oriented. PvP offers very limited rewards and isn’t really all that engaging in EVE to begin with. The mechanics are slow, the availability is limited, the interaction minimal. Over time you’re left with a group of players that have been self-selected by survivor bias - not of surviving a battle but simply by being the small niche able to tolerate EVE’s peculiar balance of risk-averse PvE’ers and near-equally risk-averse PvP’ers. And that niche gets smaller daily. If you want the status quo to change, don’t focus on the surface reactions of the survivors. Look at the fundamental game mechanisms that trigger those reactions and decide how they need to be altered. ---
**Author:** ![Onions\_and\_Peppers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onions_and_peppers/32/332621_2.png) [@Onions\_and\_Peppers](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onions_and_Peppers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/50 "2022-09-07T19:37:52Z")
I prefer the industrial side of things. I like to build. I understand opportunity costs, but I like to source all of my own material anyway because I find that satisfying. In fact in Eve Echoes (which I only play when I am at work or something and cannot play real Eve) I just bought a set pf structure blueprints to do exactly that with. It is going to take me a long time and I like it. So I would disagree with the premise that Eve can only be played as direct pvp, though I will grant that even station trading is ultimately pvp). BUT I have also come to accept that I would not have been playing Eve for years if it was all solveable. Where to find materials is known. How to deal with npc pirates is solveable. At that point it is just a mindless grind to build anything. What keeps me engaged, aside from recent (laughable) efforts to start getting my direct pvp feet wet, is the unsolveable. It is watching dscan and local, deciding if I want to use an exhumer or if a more agile Endurance or Prospect is better for the job, figuring out how to safely get to the materials in more dangerous parts of space and back, that keeps me engaged. I do not enjoy being ganked. But I would not enjoy Eve for long without the possibility of it. Aside from all of that, for people that really just want to build and sell stuff, a fair number of items would quickly lose nearly 100% of their value if there was a reasonable, completely safe space to use them. Someone mentioned the badger above. Everyone could get three free from career agents (I believe–havent done them in a while, but if not then another industrial ship) and never need to buy another. I am more on the industrial side of things and I confess that ganking is like a fat bottom girl. It makes my industrial world go 'round. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Roke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/big_roke/32/323775_2.png) [@Big\_Roke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Big_Roke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/51 "2022-09-07T19:41:00Z")
The whole Eve economy is driven by ships being blown up. Given that the majority of PvE is pretty easy stuff and therefore doesn’t involve many ship losses, PvP drives the economy. If it wasn’t for PvP then supply would be greater than demand and the economy would nosedive. So as an absolute, Eve requires PvP. No doubt there is an issue with toxicity. With social media et al we’re in an era of keyboard warriors that not only don’t think and don’t care about what mischief they cause, but they actually thrive on the salty tears. As were in a ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’ world, a lot is justified, but there is definitely an element of bullying. Unfortunately within a sandbox environment you need to take the rough with the smooth and hope that eventually the scalliwags will go too far and be ostracised, either by CCP or the rest of Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/52 "2022-09-07T19:41:11Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The code is usually written by workers hired and instructed to write it, so not necessarily. OK so the people instructing them to write it are the sociopaths 🙂 ( See, this is why no-one has a resolution to Searle’s 'Chinese Room ’ ) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/53 "2022-09-07T19:51:27Z")
Well, technically the people _truly_ responsible are parents and education administrators, because _they_ are in control of these people’s improper upbringing that results in the corruption of their moral values. But the line needs to be drawn _somewhere,_ so I think it would be safe and acceptable to say that anyone directly responsible for the creation of games in which PvP can happen without player consent should face legal/criminal repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/55 "2022-09-07T19:54:01Z")
Along with holding anyone responsible for non-consensual pvp. With real life fines, community service, and in the more extreme and habitual cases, imprisonment. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/56 "2022-09-07T20:01:53Z")
> [@Big\_Roke](#): > > but there is definitely an element of bullying There is also a ‘block’ function in chat, precisely for such situations. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/57 "2022-09-07T20:20:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There is a clear expectation that anyone can attack any one at any time in real life too. And the clear expectation that anyone can be robbed, spied on, betrayed, scammed, be taken advantage of by crooked traders in real life as well. It’s good to always remember where the real world ends, and the game begins. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/58 "2022-09-07T21:25:32Z")
> [@Mirjana\_Popovic](#): > > Domi vs Domi is fair game, even if outnumbered, however 10 catalysts popping some random dude in Uedama or Balle does not make sense and kinda drives away legitimate players that would rather opt for that kind of gameplay then to go to 0.0 😛 Why would you ever want a fair fight? > [@TheDopeMan](#): > > This isn’t pvp this is grieving, even if it is allowed. if it were actual pvp you wanted, you can find loads of it and thousands of people who do it everyday. You don’t want fleet battles or Blops, you want that guaranteed kill on someone you can’t lose to. That is what makes it toxic and pathetic. There is no shortage of pvp, there is just a shortage of options for that sure win with little to no risk of actual loss to yourself. All of warfare is about killing the other person before they kill you. Why would you want a fair fight? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I generally agree that most of the time it’s “EvE operating as intended” but to me there can still be toxic behaviour even within what’s strictly allowed, and it ultimately boils down to sportsmanlike conduct. If you’re just snashing noobs because you can smash noobs I personally would consider that toxic. It’s not accomplishing anything it’s just being mean for the sake of being mean. Once they leave noobland, they ain’t noobs no more 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There is a clear expectation that anyone can attack any one at any time in real life too. I always find it fascinating when peeps can’t keep vidya games and reality separate. We talking about the vidya game bud. Keep up 😃 > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > It’s good to always remember where the real world ends, and the game begins. I get the sense that line is real blurry for Lucas 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Roke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/big_roke/32/323775_2.png) [@Big\_Roke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Big_Roke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/59 "2022-09-07T21:28:03Z")
If you think being able to ‘block’ chat is a solution to bullying behavior then you haven’t really thought about it much. I should have said griefing rather than bullying though tbh ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/60 "2022-09-07T21:29:33Z")
If you block them, you can’t see the chat LOL. Although people who block others are wussies 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Roke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/big_roke/32/323775_2.png) [@Big\_Roke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Big_Roke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/61 "2022-09-07T21:35:44Z")
I will also add that there are a LOT of people that have no inclination to try and see the big picture. Many peoples minds are purely focussed on the now, not the tomorrow. They’ve been wrapped in cotton wool by their parents and been given a ‘reality’ which isn’t compatible with the real world. There are far too many immature adults around unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/62 "2022-09-07T21:38:31Z")
My guy, you know we playing a vidya game right? ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Roke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/big_roke/32/323775_2.png) [@Big\_Roke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Big_Roke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/63 "2022-09-07T21:38:36Z")
There are plenty of objects to give a name to which allow you to communicate bypassing chat. People can still grief others anonymously ingame while still communicating outside the game. You still really need to think about it more lol ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/64 "2022-09-07T21:39:14Z")
I can’t even remember the last time I checked the name of something you can put in space. Try harder bro 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=4)