# Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 7, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137 "2022-09-07T16:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/146 "2022-09-09T19:16:24Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > back in the day even if you shot a target-painted stationary corvette with a full rack of 1400mm cannons the ship always had 1 hull point left and then concord with plap you ⬆ THIS ⬆ ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/147 "2022-09-09T19:58:21Z")
> [@Ully\_Loom](#): > > You are right to ask the question, and I will read to you the first paragraph on page 45 of the French EvE Online user manual dating from 2003! That literally doesn’t say anything about being combat free. Its simply explaining sec rating LOL. Is reading comprehension hard for you or Also sec rating doesn’t even really work like that sadly. I wish there were more benefits to being high sec or low sec rating. > [@Ully\_Loom](#): > > However, as it stands, this is far from being the case, EvE Online having become totally unfair over the years! How has it become unfair exactly? > [@Ully\_Loom](#): > > By taking into account the security rating of the victims in the calculation of CONCORD’s high-sec response times, CCP would thus take a big step forward towards fairness within EvE Online! They have tons of tools at their disposal to avoid death. They rarely ever use them 😃 > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > I’m not sure you should count Trigs and EDENCOM as I referenced it, but you are free to choose how you interpret things. That doesn’t necessarily make you wrong…or right. LOL. You trying that new work out plan where you just move goal posts huh? > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > No. Way back in the day you weren’t allowed to one-shot someone in HS. > > Yes, I tried. Citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/148 "2022-09-09T20:19:37Z")
> [@Ully\_Loom](#): > > By taking into account the security rating of the victims in the calculation of CONCORD’s high-sec response times, CCP would thus take a big step forward towards fairness within EvE Online! Does this word, fairness, at least mean something to our Viking friends? Fairness ? One joins a world where mega-alliances already own vast stretches and there’s 5,000 Titans and people with 10 trillion ISK…and you think unfairness is 2 pence worth of Venture being blapped ?? Nothing in Eve is ‘fair’. The dice are loaded before you even join. It is _supposed_ to be that way…and is precisely what makes the game glorious and epic. It is what defines the achievements of those who have succeeded despite the unfairness…and to reduce everything to a level playing field is thus to diminish the achievements of the achievers and elevate the non-achievements of non-achievers. And _that_ is what destroys games more than unfairness could ever do. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/149 "2022-09-09T21:22:46Z")
I think not only security status but the toon’s age plays a roll. CCP can hurt you if you shoot certain age toons in specific places. Now, I don’t play around those, so I have no personal experience but some say CCP takes griefing and noob heavens’ popping kinda seriously. Just clarifying a bit that it doesn’t qualify as “toxic”… just some specific spaceship shootings are forbidden and perhaps effectively punished. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/150 "2022-09-09T21:45:19Z")
i have no sympathy for people that complain about losing ships being the worst player in the game ever i probably lost more than anyone here ![3386201](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/6/4/264da91aca6a76c64d1a9b34af47517def4c6413.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/151 "2022-09-10T00:31:10Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i have no sympathy for people that complain about losing ships > being the worst player in the game ever i probably lost more than anyone here Yep. Lost a rifter a few days ago. It was a bad match up and bad fight but I had just roamed for an hour looking for a fight so, did what I had to do LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/152 "2022-09-10T01:28:39Z")
Come to old man star. I’ve got like 40 t1 frigs all fitted out I need to waste. All various kinds. I’ll give you half and we can 1v1 them away in the novice plex. I need to get some experience and I’m tired of them sitting there. Hit me up in game whenever, I’ll probably be on in a couple hours if your still around. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/153 "2022-09-10T01:30:26Z")
Last time I went thru OMS, it was empty weirdly haha. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/154 "2022-09-10T01:31:33Z")
Yeah it’s super time zone dependent. Anywhere from 3 to 45 people it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/155 "2022-09-10T02:42:44Z")
You gotta roam around it that area a bit. I found that waiting like a spider in a web works best, at least for me. People do eventually show up. It’s just getting worse because of carebear faction warfare LP grinders that run at the first site of anyone entering their plex… ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/156 "2022-09-10T04:54:57Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > Since you obviously know everything, why did CCP change it where you couldn’t one-shot wrecks to deny a ganker the loot? Because that was toxic. > [@Xucca](#): > > When CCP asks “What will wreck killers do?” is an invitation to explore possibilities, not a flat denial. No, they are clearly mocking AGs - “hahaha, what will you do now idiots?”. See CCP themselves are toxic af, how could they not be, when they created such toxic game as EVE. > [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Usually when I kill a new bro I send them more isk than their ship loss and their emails are usually WTF happened, a type of confusion or shock more than anything else. Few days ago I shot newbie and refunded him with email explaining he wasn’t my target and I simply didn’t have time to check if he is new player or not. He sent me my money back with an email full of insults that he won’t take dirty money from lowly player like me who is killing innocent players for fun. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/157 "2022-09-10T06:02:28Z")
Speaking of chess. I remember there was a chess PC game in nineties that I loved to play and in this game the pieces were murdering each other with weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/158 "2022-09-10T08:53:11Z")
Battlechess ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/159 "2022-09-10T13:48:44Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Because that was toxic. Citation needed. Also… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/9/3/593e6bfad58a1d56b6133ecd21ebf39a29822b77.png) WHY?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/160 "2022-09-10T14:26:03Z")
Im pretty sure a long time ago, you could shoot and destroy concord, now you cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Ully\_Loom](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ully_loom/32/501057_2.png) [@Ully\_Loom](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ully_Loom)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/161 "2022-09-10T14:29:28Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nothing in Eve is ‘fair’. The dice are loaded before you even join. It is _supposed_ to be that way…and is precisely what makes the game glorious and epic. It is what defines the achievements of those who have succeeded despite the unfairness…and to reduce everything to a level playing field is thus to diminish the achievements of the achievers and elevate the non-achievements of non-achievers. And _that_ is what destroys games more than unfairness could ever do. Glorious and epic? This game was glorious and epic at the dawn of 2008, after 4 and a half years of a fully successful launch in the eyes of an unquestionably amazed gaming community at the time! Today, 14 and a half years later, this game is empty of its first substance: its players, and this simply because cretins like you dream and convince themselves of perpetual glory! But glory is not obtained by simple inheritance, it is earned and deserved throughout life… Also, I didn’t talk about equality in my answer @T_Elliot , but equity! And that’s exactly what the security rating of the characters should be used for, rather than being there just to look pretty… Also, revise your vocabulary a bit instead of systematically polluting this forum with all your assertions totally useless and out of context, and this as every time you intervene! There are already enough trolls like that on this forum that are absolutely useless… Stubbornness is by no means a quality! On the contrary, it is a huge flaw! And this defect leads CCP to the bottom of the hole! So continue like this, and I guarantee you, alas! an ugly ending… It’s a real mess! What is the CSM doing in all this, if nothing? All a bunch of incompetents who in 16 years will have been useless; that it is very easy to criticize in such conditions, especially when one does not understand anything; recent example: > **[Le CSM s'exprime contre la monétisation d'EVE Online par CCP – blocs.news](https://blocs.news/le-csm-sexprime-contre-la-monetisation-deve-online-par-ccp/)** > > EVE Online existe depuis un peu moins de 20 ans. Au cours de cette période, les plaintes des joueurs ne manquent pas de surgir. Le CSM, ou Council of Stellar Management, est un concept assez génial pour un développeur de MMO. Le CSM est un comité élu... Monetization is already present at all levels of the game for the sole benefit of CCP, and it is called erosion of player assets in the form of destruction and taxation! This is why it becomes URGENT to talk about equity within EvE Online, and taking into account the security rating of the characters in the calculation of CONCORD’s response times would already be a good start, it is even a priority, even a duty on the part of CCP! @CCP_Paragon , @CCP_Swift , etc. @Hilmar, if you want to fly safe again, start to play fair first ! Good luck to you facing the challenge that awaits you, because less than two months is certainly very short, but it is by no means insurmountable when the right choices are made! SAVE NEW EDEN ! Ully Loom ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/162 "2022-09-10T14:42:17Z")
I will write an honest post here, no trolling, no pulling strings, no propaganda… this is a mature post for mature and inteligent people. I am sorry if this post is long, but I will make your time worth! In real life I was physically attacked quite a lot of times, I had a lot of fist fights and more, I have enough scars on my body and I never lost a fight, I know just enough of a certian martial art that saved me everytime (thanks to my Sensei)… and I gave someone a concussion when I hit his head on the sidewalk by throwing him to the ground making him dive on concrete and I could have killed another someone if people didnt took me off him. There’s some chance I could be in jail a few times through my life, this is the real me and not the player. So, how do I feel about all those people today? I still hate them all with no exceptions, even tough I beat them up bad, I would enjoy seeing them all going through the worst possible things physically, my hate did not diminish not even a bit through the years and the taste of victory did not fix my hate. They brought real life unconsented pvp to me and I hate them for it. It’s quite interesting, isn’t it? I won and saved myself, but I still hate them and I would enjoy seeing them suffer way more, I don’t think this is normal but this is my burden to carry. Bringing my real life experience to gaming, I mostly played shooters and no one thinks that it is toxic shooting people in shooting games. I also played World of Warcraft and did a lot of pvp, Guild Wars 2 and pvped a lot and i was an ultra player killer in Ultima Online… in all those RPGs no one thought killing people was toxic. In shooting games no one get the shakes… in RPGs we get some shakes sometimes and even I got the shakes… I got way more shakes in Ultima Online than EVE Online. EVE in general gives shakes to everybody before it gets old eventually. I think that when we identify ourselves with the character we have the real life stress and adrenalin will happen! That’s why in sandboxes that we have our customized character which we can identify with then we will get shakes and the stress… and the salt and the trauma and so on. This is why playing with generic characters in shooting games we don’t get any shakes at all and we don’t think it is toxic, because we don’t identify with the character and the game by design is about killing and being killed and there is no farmining, no industry, no PVE. Just like in real life I lived through a hell life of violence, my life was very suboptimal to say the least! I think we have this mechanism in our brains… something happens with our brains when we are identified with the self and the situation we are living in. I think this is why people go through trauma in real life and in EVE Online… it is about grasping, attachment, self identification, feeling the experience as real. CCP put a lot of effort in bringing you to the experience and people experience EVE in this weird way as if it was real life… then we get the shakes because of that and maybe even stress, trauma, hate, sadness and joy. It is a delusion, we hop in that experience completely identified with it and it could be amazing or toxic… we go through all the spectrum of emotions in EVE as we do in real life. Too much self identification with the object, too much grasping with the character and the ships and grasping to the self. My real life traumas manifest as permanent hate on me and I really tried letting it go, not all traumas are fear some traumas come as hate, aggression and violence. If this happens in real life… and we are living EVE as if it is a real life then we will have all it’s side effects while playing EVE, it is inevitable. This is why I do understand the people who get killed in EVE and get traumatized… it’s because they are overly identified with their character just like we identify ourselves with the self in real life. I mean, I get it. As a game company CCP had to facilitate the immersion in the game for making the game good, but then people started freaking out, because they were not prepared for this, just like we are not born prepared for real life. What do we do about it now? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/163 "2022-09-10T14:43:52Z")
> [@Ully\_Loom](#): > > This game was glorious and epic at the dawn of 2008 [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/2/2/1220425df42215a68d44ad5063909dcf4c9a6e61.jpeg "Monty Python- Four Yorkshire Men") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1by0-nkKOTs) ---
**Author:** ![Arya\_Yeshe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arya_yeshe/32/397211_2.png) [@Arya\_Yeshe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arya_Yeshe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/164 "2022-09-10T14:59:48Z")
My whole point is: EVE is by design a game that people will go through self-identification and since we have endless self-grasping we will fall in this trap of having all possible real life emotions. CCP did this and we are at fault for falling into it. Wasn’t CCP Hjlmar who said he wanted people playing EVE while on meds? Yes, it was him. What do we do now? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/165 "2022-09-10T15:30:17Z")
> [@Arya\_Yeshe](#): > > CCP did this and we are at fault for falling into it. Wasn’t CCP Hjlmar who said he wanted people playing EVE while on meds? Yes, it was him. > > What do we do now? (Note: any ‘you’ references here mean players and PvPers in general, not Arya Yeshe.) The emotional aspects of EVE play are there by design. That’s the whole point: real risk of real loss. Right now there are 20,000 accounts logged into EVE. Probably around 2 or 3 thousand of those accounts are engaging in PvP - right now. This goes on every minute of the day (with varying numbers). The sensible thing to do is put it in perspective: some people wish to act aggressively in the game because it interests them. Some people do not wish to act aggressively or be acted upon. A small percent of people engaged in PvP on either side will become abusive, given the chance. It is pointless to say “EVE should be this” or “EVE was meant to be that” or “you consent to PvP when you log in”. People are people. Some people will be aggressive but sportsmanlike about it, some people will be cowardly thugs, some will be toxic. And some people will respond to that aggression sportingly, or cowardly, or toxically. PvP is always a potential outcome, and everyone can choose to do it. **And part of choosing to do it is accepting the consquences.** Those consequences may be loss of your ship, or a security standings hit. And those consequences may be that you get an angry, irrational, crazed outburst of verbal abuse. If you feel the abuse steps over the line of the TOS or EULA, then report it and move on. Otherwise, suck it up, people. You chose verbal abuse as a possible consequence when you decided to PvP. If you expect everyone to send you a salute and a “gf” whenever you blow them away, then EVE isn’t the only imaginary universe you’re living in. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137.md?page=9)