# Should life be harder for gankers? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832 "2024-02-25T13:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/81 "2024-02-26T16:32:31Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Meh…let me know when _your_ chars collectively have 2.4 Trillion ISK in kill assists. Let me know when yours does. All talk. No do. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![RGC\_Godfather](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rgc_godfather/32/433733_2.png) [@RGC\_Godfather](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/RGC_Godfather)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/82 "2024-02-26T16:40:03Z")
As someone so cleverly put before in a previous comment, times are changing. This game is slowly changing to benefit its HS members finally and ganking will end up being removed with time. Its simply a waiting game, how much pressure can ccp take before they buckle to the masses. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Ganking is only “necessary” to the players who’ve chosen that method of funding their gameplay or supporting their particular emotional/motivational needs One of the most factual comments Ive seen on here so far. The entirety of your message not just the quoted part. Eve has so many ways to be dangerous as seen just by these numbers alone. 16trillion lost and only 1.7 of that was hs and only a percentage of that would be considered ganks. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > purposefully Poe‘s Lawing up the forums “Without a clear indicator of the author’s intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.” Not exactly a correct use of the phrase on your part so I put the definition to help educate you, as our intent is extremely obvious and views are sincere. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > for does anyone REALLY think that changes to highsec wont inflitrate into lowsec and beyond ? Yes this is the point. It’ll push people wanting to pvp in a few different directions. hs war corps, fw corps, low sec, or null sec. This game has so many dead low sec and nul sec systems. I only see 2 reasons why people would truthfully be against this and none of them are the excuses the gankers are giving. The first being they just have a rough home life and like taking it out on people on the internet. The second reason being the major null groups dont want a massive influx of free thinking players jumping in and trying to take over ruining the status quo they have set up over the years. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > My subscription depends on space remaining unsafe everywhere. I’ll be gone the minute that ever changes Honestly if you decided to leave for the game for the devs deciding to heal the game and support other more beneficial game play mechanics that’s on you. That’s an equivalent of lets say you leaving a relationship because your partner decided they no longer wanted to be toxic so they started therapy. childish and pathetic but still a choice you’d be allowed to make. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > do you go to judo tournaments and demand that no one is allowed to throw other people to the mat? You seem to have made a poor comparison here so I’ll break it down. As someone with a lot of fighting experience, even in martial arts when fighting in tournaments you are fighting on fair terms with rules. Its against someone of a similar degree. That’s what the belts are for. They aren’t going to put a white belt against a brown belt. Generally speaking, any Dojo worth a ■■■■ teaches students discipline, control and respect. Most gankers have none of those things. Someone properly trained to fight doesn’t just go out punching random people on the street (equivalent of ganking). Its done in defense or a place designed for it, like a ring or dojo. The people who just fight randomly in the street because of a dispute or argument are idiots and clearly have no control, discipline, or respect. Be it for themselves or the people around them. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/83 "2024-02-26T16:40:47Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > All talk. No do. Beats all talk and no undock. How’s the central heating in Jita ? Wouldn’t want you to catch a chill in that space outside. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/84 "2024-02-26T16:48:08Z")
> [@RGC\_Godfather](#): > > > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > > > purposefully Poe‘s Lawing up the forums > > “Without a clear indicator of the author’s intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.” Not exactly a correct use of the phrase on your part so I put the definition to help educate you, as our intent is extremely obvious and views are sincere. “Our intent”? You do know Destiny is running in full-parody mode, and their actual beliefs run counter to the epic extreme troll wall they post. Your posts look exactly the same. Therefore, any rational reader will conclude both of you are spouting the same extreme views but are not sincere in holding them. In fact, your very response here is one of the play-responses I think I’ve gotten from Destiny (or one they’ve given someone else). So you’re following the playbook either way. In the end though, your actual underlying beliefs don’t matter. Either you are parodying with Destiny and doing a great job making sincere anti-PvP extremists look like silly geese, or you are sincere and are actually a silly goose yourself (and just way too dense to notice, hence “our intent”). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/85 "2024-02-26T16:48:11Z")
Still waiting for the link of your characters 2.4T in kill assets. Or just keep making ■■■■ up. Up to you. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![RGC\_Godfather](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rgc_godfather/32/433733_2.png) [@RGC\_Godfather](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/RGC_Godfather)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/86 "2024-02-26T16:51:48Z")
yea no my responses are serious and not a joke. I mean what i say 100% ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/87 "2024-02-26T16:52:14Z")
> [@RGC\_Godfather](#): > > the devs deciding to heal the game Of an ‘ailment’ you just invented out of thin air. There is nothing wrong with the way Eve is and has been for 20 years now. In fact, if anything the _real_ ailment in Eve is people like yourself poisoning the well. You poison the airwaves with a make-believe ‘ailment’ that puts people off Eve and how exciting the risk in it actually is. You pretend to be protecting noobs…when really you are proposing changes that would make the game boring for them. You _grossly_ exaggerate the amount of ganking in Eve for that purpose. It is all lies that are toxic to the fundamental nature of a dark, dystopian game like Eve. If Eve needs ‘healing’ it is from the disease you yourself create. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/88 "2024-02-26T16:53:14Z")
> [@RGC\_Godfather](#): > > You seem to have made a poor comparison here so I’ll break it down. As someone with a lot of fighting experience, even in martial arts when fighting in tournaments you are fighting on fair terms with rules. Its against someone of a similar degree. That’s what the belts are for. They aren’t going to put a white belt against a brown belt. Generally speaking, any Dojo worth a ■■■■ teaches students discipline, control and respect. Most things gankers have none of. @RGC_Godfather Gankers are at a disadvantage. Once haulers and miners learn the game, they should never be ganked. I have never been ganked once hauling or mining. I frequently don’t follow my own advice and I afk mine and fly partial routes on auto pilot while I make myself a sandwich or play with my cat. All haulers need to do is learn the cloak/microwarp trick on a fairly fast aligning ship and they are almost invulnerable in high sec. If miners are paying attention, it is almost impossible for them to be caught on grid in high sec. If you like martial arts, then you should know that fighting is kind of fun. PVP is the best part of EvE. Eliminating it from high sec will ruin my main game play as a hauler. My analogy stands. Please stop trying to remove simulated spaceship fighting from a spaceship fighting simulator. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/89 "2024-02-26T16:59:46Z")
Should life be harder for gankers? Yes and no. Gankers are using the rules of the game to get around the rules of the game. As much as I hate gankers, there’s technically nothing wrong with it. There isn’t anything saying that you can’t obliterate a ship in highsec. It’s implied, but not outright stated. Do I think gankers only take up ganking because they suck at PvP? Yes. But at the end of the day, it’s a spaceship game. Let the degenerates have their degenerate fun ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/90 "2024-02-26T17:00:27Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Still waiting for the link of your characters 2.4T in kill assets. I don’t care what you ‘believe’. I _know_ that is the figure and that’s good enough for me. By all means respond with yet more childish ‘nanananana’. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/91 "2024-02-26T17:27:03Z")
I agree with the fact that haulers and miners need to learn how to avoid gankers. People make hauling sound extremely dangerous, but it’s safe enough when you actually learn how to pay attention and learn to deal with the potential risks ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/92 "2024-02-26T17:44:05Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > where is this constant drum beat about ganking being out of control coming from? There is no constant drum beat, it’s like a handful of threads each month, half of which are started over and over again by the same people under different alts. The thread also isn’t about “ganking being out of control”, it’s about “Should ganking have more consequences (make life harder) for gankers?”. Which is a somewhat valid question, it’s just posted badly by a troll poster so the thread’s pretty much a waste anyway. Consequences, practices and mechanics of ganking are a reasonable topic, but the issue has basically devolved to the same shouting match between the “ganking is evil”, “ganking is okay as long as it’s happening to other people”, and “ganking is what EVE is all about” crowds. And they all knee-jerk out the same responses regardless of the actual topic. The very predictability of the arguments shows just what a lame rut ganking is in, but as long as the subs keep rolling in I don’t think CCP has the guts to risk rocking the boat too much in either direction. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/93 "2024-02-26T18:29:05Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The thread also isn’t about “ganking being out of control”, it’s about “Should ganking have more consequences (make life harder) for gankers?”. Most of the anti gank crowd have absolutely zero idea what the consequences actually are…precisely because they have never ganked…there’s the irony. They seem to imagine that ganking is risk and consequence free. For starters, even a small fleet of 4 T2 Catalysts can be 55m to 60m ISK. There’s an ISK consequence right off the bat. Then there’s kill rights. The gankee, or whoever they choose, gets to have a free pot shot at the ganker without Concord interference. If they play that right, it is even more cost for the gankers. And for those gankers who choose not to go below -5 security, there is the cost of clone tags…which are 48m or so ISK each and each one covers 0.5 security status or about 3 ganks. Oh…and a 6m ISK ‘Concord Fee’ on top of that. So the true cost of each gank is actually about 30m ISK per gank for any good T2 ganker. Which is 120m ISK for that fleet of 4. So even using less expensive fits to gank a 90m ISK barge…the fleet makes barely any ISK at all…yet runs the risk of the gank failing and all that ISK being lost. The idea that gankers just have a ‘Tally ho !’ attitude and gank anything in sight ‘without consequence’ is a myth invented by those who have never ganked. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/94 "2024-02-26T18:57:18Z")
Honestly, all I can see is “boo hoo, I can’t ruin this poor new guy’s entire experience with the game without paying for it first”. It’s not 90m barges, it’s 1.8b exhumers. _However_, I do think newer players need to learn that this game isn’t all puppies and sunshine, even in highsec. It’s a delicate balancing act, and I’m surprised CCP is able to keep the entire player base from entering an all out war over this (this didn’t reply to the right message for some reason, this was in context of that guy going over the costs of ganking) ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/95 "2024-02-26T18:58:56Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > There is no constant drum beat, it’s like a handful of threads each month, half of which are started over and over again by the same people under different alts. I guess I may be older than you are, and consequently have a longer-term view, but reading the same thing month in and month out sounds like a constant drum beat to me. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The thread also isn’t about “ganking being out of control”, it’s about “Should ganking have more consequences (make life harder) for gankers?”. Which is a somewhat valid question, it’s just posted badly by a troll poster so the thread’s pretty much a waste anyway. I think we did not read the same threads. In this thread there were posts claiming that ganking was clubbing baby seals and that gankers needed therapy. I didn’t read much in the way of a serious discussion of mechanics. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Consequences, practices and mechanics of ganking are a reasonable topic, but the issue has basically devolved to the same shouting match between the “ganking is evil”, “ganking is okay as long as it’s happening to other people”, and “ganking is what EVE is all about” crowds. And they all knee-jerk out the same responses regardless of the actual topic. I guess we both answered this in the paragraph before. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The very predictability of the arguments shows just what a lame rut ganking is in, but as long as the subs keep rolling in I don’t think CCP has the guts to risk rocking the boat too much in either direction. I not sure that ganking is in a rut, but I am not a ganker. These posts calling for the nerfing of ganking one way or the other do seem to be following the same rut though. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/96 "2024-02-26T19:00:25Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > Honestly, all I can see is “boo hoo, I can’t ruin this poor new guy’s entire experience with the game without paying for it first”. I Can you quote where this was said? ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/97 "2024-02-26T19:03:23Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > For starters, even a small fleet of 4 T2 Catalysts can be 55m to 60m ISK. There’s an ISK consequence right off the bat. Then there’s kill rights. The gankee, or whoever they choose, gets to have a free pot shot at the ganker without Concord interference. If they play that right, it is even more cost for the gankers. And for those gankers who choose not to go below -5 security, there is the cost of clone tags…which are 48m or so ISK each and each one covers 0.5 security status or about 3 ganks. Oh…and a 6m ISK ‘Concord Fee’ on top of that. > > So the true cost of each gank is actually about 30m ISK per gank for any good T2 ganker. Which is 120m ISK for that fleet of 4. So even using less expensive fits to gank a 90m ISK barge…the fleet makes barely any ISK at all…yet runs the risk of the gank failing and all that ISK being lost. The idea that gankers just have a ‘Tally ho !’ attitude and gank anything in sight ‘without consequence’ is a myth invented by those who have never ganked Here’s the quote, I boiled it down quite a bit, and there is a decent argument in here. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/98 "2024-02-26T19:07:30Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > and I’m surprised CCP is able to keep the entire player base from entering an all out war over this Oh…that would be fun. Please, CCP…when can the Psychopaths vs Carebears war start ? Yes, this should be settled in-game. ---
**Author:** ![TheHound\_OfGreys](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thehound_ofgreys/32/412487_2.png) [@TheHound\_OfGreys](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/TheHound_OfGreys)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/99 "2024-02-26T19:08:14Z")
That would be hilarious. FW, but much more highsec focused ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832/100 "2024-02-26T19:38:37Z")
> [@TheHound\_OfGreys](#): > > Here’s the quote, I boiled it down quite a bit, and there is a decent argument in here. Hello @TheHound_OfGreys. Was this post quoting Altara meant to answer my question? If so I don’t rean anywhere in Altara’s post where she said anything close to “boo hoo, I can’t ruin this poor new guy’s entire experience with the game without paying for it first”. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-life-be-harder-for-gankers/440832.md?page=6)