# Should Noir be stripped of Aidonis? **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2019, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591 "2019-05-14T10:34:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Trii\_Seo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trii_seo/32/498139_2.png) [@Trii\_Seo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trii_Seo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/21 "2019-08-09T11:04:52Z")
Once again, you confuse the facts: you called Gariushi’s address “Hate speech” in a previous post: > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Look, for example, what he said about Gariushi after the latter denounced Heth in his [hate speech](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/breaking-news-ishukone-ceo-pleads-for-calm-denounces-tibus-heth/): I have pointed out that his words do not qualify as hate speech. Because they do not. If you were to start calling for people of Gallente ethnicity to be killed because of their ethnicity - that is hate speech. Similarily, calling for violence against homosexuals because of their sexual orientation - that is hate speech as well. If you were to call for the death of a singular Gallentean because they shot you (commited an action against you) it’s… really not, is it. (However, calling for the deaths of all Gallente because one of them shot you, so by some weird logic all of them are like that - does qualify). This is a very important distinction to make, especially in the case of Gariushi. His words were emotional, yes, but far from hatred - and spoken at a time where it was far too late for a polite discourse while drinking some tea. They weren’t even aimed at Heth at that point, they were aimed at the people while violence was rising on both sides. As for Heth - let’s look at his address after he took over as CEO of Caldari Constructions. > [@](#): > > It’s true that I led a coup against the masters of this corporation. I led this coup not expecting to survive, but my intent was never to kill my brothers. We spared the life of every guard and worker in the Armor Forge-you can ask them yourself. And I swear…that Caldari man did not have to die! It was the greed of mega-corporations that killed him; the greed of sinister men that was killing Caldari Constructions. How could our leadership allow this to happen? What was it that subverted them, that turned them towards this path? Think of it: all of those gifted, talented individuals, the so-called elite, whom we charged with guiding us? From where-or from whom-did they learn this path? > > It was learned from the same enemy they were supposed to protect us from. It was learned from the Gallenteans. In this instance, we see quite clearly, that he chose to place the blame for inefficiencies in the State Government to the Gallente. Because surely it could not have been nepotism, pure damn greed… no, that had to be the fault of an external foe. > [@](#): > > The Caldari people are the strongest souls of New Eden; no other nation has done so much with so little. An objective look back upon our history demonstrates that the Gallenteans, from the moment they contacted us, have been the bane of our existence. They and their righteousness, they and their criticism of our way of life, they and their insistence that their values are appropriate for us all…and still…still! This goes on today, just as it did a thousand years ago! > > Is it not insulting that they can just dismiss the culture we’ve held dear to us for generations; to blatantly dismiss the values which have kept us alive in this cruel universe? Their self-indulgence in moral proclamations is, make no mistake about it, a superiority complex, a hateful arrogance that blinds them to the vulnerability of our human selves. Classic, textbook “stoke the pride” nationalism. We are better, the other group is worse. > [@](#): > > My promise, my solemn swear, is to adhere with the values that made us who we are, and not to the corruption of those whom I have replaced. My responsibility is to rid the scourge of Gallentean ideals from the ranks of our corporate leaders, and I will demand accountability for the failure of our State. Villifying the enemy ideology again, because his vision of the State is better. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/22 "2019-08-10T09:48:51Z")
Posted reply in offtopic, since this tribal’s conspiracies are neither about Noir nor his actions anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Trii\_Seo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trii_seo/32/498139_2.png) [@Trii\_Seo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trii_Seo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/23 "2019-08-12T17:12:21Z")
Do not try to divert the discussion away when it ceases to comply with your vision of the world, Diana. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/24 "2019-08-13T19:57:43Z")
You’re diverting the discussion and blaming others in it. Get out, tribal. I now feel sorry I wasted my precious time on answering to your previous inane rants about our Hero. ---
**Author:** ![Stitcher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitcher/32/440654_2.png) [@Stitcher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitcher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/25 "2019-08-14T13:26:42Z")
> [@Trii\_Seo](#): > > Do not try to divert the discussion away when it ceases to comply with your vision of the world, Diana. Why would she change the habit of a lifetime? The horse is a greasy smear in the dirt, Paige. The whip has long since broken and worn down to a stub, and the hand holding it is wracked with agonising arthritis and joint damage. It is long, LONG past time to stop beating. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/26 "2019-08-14T17:51:20Z")
I wonder, can we have here a normal discussions without enemies of the State like @Stitcher to jump in to insult people just because he wants to show his disagreement but lacks any smarts to produce any intelligent objection?.. ---
**Author:** ![Trii\_Seo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trii_seo/32/498139_2.png) [@Trii\_Seo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trii_Seo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/27 "2019-08-14T18:29:32Z")
There was no ranting. I have merely pointed out that the death of Otro Gariushi and the potential to portray Alexander Noir as a deranged psychopath was a convenient event for Tibus Heth. Still, repeatedly, you call me a Tribal - even though I did point out to you that by doing so you insult both the Tribes of Matar and my own folk so it’s likely deliberate. I ask you - are you capable of a calm, civilized discussion about delicate topics, at all? ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/28 "2019-08-14T22:00:01Z")
No. No she is not. And she has, time and again, proven that she cannot have any discussion without making derogatory comments about race. Engaging in discussion with Kim, with the hope of achieving meaningful dialogue, is an exercise in futility. However if you are only in it to listen to a banshee screech, finding the right buttons to push is a simple task. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/29 "2019-08-15T12:17:50Z")
You talk about my dear Ms Kim as if she is some master villain. She is a minor irritant at best. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/30 "2019-08-16T15:35:19Z")
It seems more gallente bootlickers are jumping in discussion just to insult the original poster because they can’t grasp ideas with their petty minds and make personal attacks instead, stomping feet like toddlers and bawling instead of bringing intelligent arguments. Honestly, that was expected from these three. I just suggest to ignore Toovs, Seos, Stitchers and their kind and continue the discussion without their half-witted remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/31 "2019-09-05T00:37:46Z")
Well, this thread certainly _went places_. Diana, as someone with both Gallente and Caldari ancestry I’d appreciate it if you disposed with the racism, it’s not conducive to civil discussion. On the theory that Admiral Noir was clonejacked, I think it’s worryingly plausible. What everyone saw as his final act was so utterly against everything that the man had stood for over the course of his life that I had considerable difficulty believing he could actually commit such an atrocity. The idea that someone managed to compromise his mental state in such a way that he would ram a Nyx-class supercarrier into a peace conference would make some amount of sense, though how you would actually accomplish such a thing is currently beyond my knowledge. It also raises the question of how many other high-ranking individuals might have been compromised in such a manner, and by whom. A personal theory of mine is that Tibus Heth might have been one such individual, considering how his actions at the end of his reign clashed with his previous actions in aiding the working-class Caldari citizenry. I’ve no particular love for the man, but if someone _did_ manage to twist him into a mockery of everything he once stood for then I think we ought to find out who was responsible. > **OOC** > > I’m a major lore nerd but it’s hard to keep everything straight, and I’m under the impression that Heth genuinely cared about the rights and welfare of the Caldari working class. Please correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong on that front. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 3:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/32 "2019-09-05T03:44:05Z")
I was raised in a State where Tibus Heth was taking us to exciting places. Meritocracy was back, the rights of the working citizen were pushed front and center and the Caldari State was beginning to emerge from a financial doldrum into an exciting and bright new day of prosperity, progress and innovation. Then he managed to take back the Homeworld - which was the culmination of him delivering the biggest promise he’d made. Sadly, from my perspective it began to go downhill from there. He didn’t secure a negotiated peace that would allow us to keep the Homeworld from it’s invaders. He began to erode our unique system of government in search of ever more centralisation. Then he trampled on the rights of workers to strike and demonstrate - it was precisely the thing that he’d fought against in his early days. I was fully disillusioned by the time he ordered the death of Admiral Yanala - may she be comfortably with her Ancestors - after the debacle over Home that sullied the sacred peaks of Kalaakiota. However, Noir built a life in service to peace and then threw it away with an act of terror that was against the life’s work and legacy he’d built. Heth came to power in an act of defiance and slowly devolved into a tyrant over time. It’s a journey that is very human and one we’ve seen before. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/33 "2019-09-05T04:11:44Z")
Also quite plausible. I suppose that my view of things can be skewed by a desire to always see the best in people. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/35 "2019-09-05T16:01:57Z")
I don’t understand what you mean? What was ‘the Broker’ and who is this person? ((OOC: Just so you know, you have stumbled into an in-character roleplay forum and details like the Broker from the books isn’t widely known by capsuleers in-game, I don’t believe. 🙂 )) ---
**Author:** ![Trii\_Seo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trii_seo/32/498139_2.png) [@Trii\_Seo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trii_Seo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/36 "2019-09-05T22:10:16Z")
An electric boogeyman. Super-spy-infobroker and master of disguise. One that… never really had much pinned on him, did he. While yes, assuming the mythical and reported capabilities of that man are as impressive as they are he totally could’ve impersonated Noir and rammed the Wandering Saint. He could’ve probably been Noir for a month and not even his wife would tell the difference. However, it doesn’t really fit his (speculated) MO now, does it… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591/37 "2019-12-04T22:10:23Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/should-noir-be-stripped-of-aidonis/159591.md?page=1)