# Siege Green - Structure Updates Now Avaialble for Testing **URL:** \ **Category:** Balance and Mechanics\ **Tags:** feedback, official, structures\ **Created:** [April 13, 2022, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746 "2022-04-13T10:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Tau\_Cabalander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_cabalander/32/373930_2.png) [@Tau\_Cabalander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Cabalander)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/713 "2022-05-13T03:46:16Z")
I’d consider adding minor victory systems to that list. Thought of it because I recently discovered I have a research agent in one, and I can’t access it to cancel research. ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/714 "2022-05-13T06:16:23Z")
High, low, null and wormhole with varieties thereof falling under these umbrellas. Your statement is irrelevant to the point though other than for you to massage your ego really. Shame because I’ve always thought your responses were well thought out and considered, I’m now disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/715 "2022-05-13T06:27:16Z")
No, in fact, there are significant differences between the types of null and the types of lowsec. The rules of structures themselves—which is the thrust of this thread—change in those areas, as they do in Poch, where no new structures can be added. For example: in sov null, IHUB ownership impacts the time for structure anchoring. In FW low, only the militia that holds the space can anchor them at all. So in very notable ways, these parts of space are different from the more ‘anyone can anchor anything with the normal timers’ versions in NPC null and normal LS. ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/716 "2022-05-13T06:31:54Z")
I’m glad you’ve returned to considered posts with substance. On that basis, would the idea of structure mechanics tailored to these categories of space be better than a one size fit all. Perhaps even limitations on structure types within these areas, could prevent things like the TTT happening. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/717 "2022-05-13T06:58:45Z")
> [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > I’m glad you’ve returned to considered posts with substance. Just because I sometimes couch my substance in humor doesn’t mean it isn’t there. 😉 > [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > On that basis, would the idea of structure mechanics tailored to these categories of space be better than a one size fit all. It would depend very much on the specifics. As has been mentioned upthread, KISS is a very significant consideration when it comes to game design and user experience. Complexity isn’t _inherently_ bad, but you have to make sure whatever complexity you add isn’t just making things harder for no real gain. And you have to make sure that that complexity flows as a natural consequence of the differences that give rise to it. For example, the fact that Medium structures take a week to anchor in hostile space over a certain level of ADM? Once you hear it, it makes sense. It feels right: if the defenders are doing the work to make a system more defensible, then they have more time to react to attempts to establish a beachhead. For FW, the same thing: if the system is currently held by the enemy Navy, your piddly little attempts to anchor a structure shouldn’t have a chance. And in that case, CCP’s kind of being nice by just not letting you do it. They could just have the controlling navy show up with overwhelming force—say, a full fleet of diamond rats—and blow the thing up literally the moment it’s out of anchoring, so you’re out the ISK. As for limiting structure _types_ by area, and preventing things like the TTT… don’t kid yourself. The TTT doesn’t function because of the _Keepstar_. It functions because of the _cartel_. A Keepstar’s got a 75,000HP/s damage cap on the armor. For 202M ehp, if you go nuts. That’s 45 minutes of shooting it at damage cap, right? Well, at 60.5M EHP and a 15K dps damage cap, a Moreau Fortizar takes _longer_: 66 minutes. And it’s got all of the combat options in highsec that a Keepstar has. The Keepstar, otoh, is a _statement_. That’s all it is.The thing that makes it work is that none of the blocs are gonna come and push it over, and if anyone _else_ tries, well, we’ll defend it. So you won’t stop the cartels that way. You won’t stop them… period. The way to stop them would be to get people to not use it, but most folks in highsec don’t pay attention to the community or the messaging that would tell them to avoid it. So basically, the _exact same reason_ highsec can’t get off its collective asses to elect CSMs is why it won’t stop the cartels. To do that, you gotta organize. HOWEVER… that’s getting a bit far afield of the ‘tailored mechanics or one size fits all?’ And to that, again, I have to say that there already _is_ a level of tailoring (no AoE weapons in HS, for example), and that any additional complexity has to feel intuitive once it’s explained the first time. Complexity for its own sake just leads to confusion and frustration, and those encourage people to go be customers of some _other_ game. ---
**Author:** ![Rowley\_Birkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowley_birkin/32/375243_2.png) [@Rowley\_Birkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowley_Birkin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/718 "2022-05-13T07:54:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So basically, the _exact same reason_ highsec can’t get off its collective asses to elect CSMs is why it won’t stop the cartels. To do that, you gotta organize. Sent off my application today. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/719 "2022-05-13T08:20:44Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > As for limiting structure _types_ by area, and preventing things like the TTT… don’t kid yourself. The TTT doesn’t function because of the _Keepstar_. It functions because of the _cartel_. I was thinking along the lines of how ship restrictions are in place in highsec, should we be seeing, and benefitting from, L and XL structures in highsec? Should XL structures be purely for Null and WH with up to L in Low. Having lived in Null and currently High, there doesn’t feel like there is a clear distinction with regards to structures, should there be? Would it create a sense of progression for new players, seeing a Titan for the first time is seen as something special for a new player, perhaps seeing a Keepstar should be the same? Just throwing stuff at the wall here (clearly). ---
**Author:** ![Tien\_Tien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tien_tien/32/267987_2.png) [@Tien\_Tien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tien_Tien)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/720 "2022-05-13T10:50:11Z")
Astras/raits in hisec and maybe up to forts/azbels in lowsec… with reducing the timers of the already existing structures in hisec to 1 (as are astras atm). After which we’ll see certain null bloc representatives demanding and explaining how we absolutely need 5 timers and how important this is for the future of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Lauralite\_Anne\_Brezia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lauralite_anne_brezia/32/380065_2.png) [@Lauralite\_Anne\_Brezia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lauralite_Anne_Brezia)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/721 "2022-05-13T11:59:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > In FW low, only the militia that holds the space can anchor them at all. This is innaccurate, however in FW low only controlling militia pilots(or non-FW neutrals) are able to tether, and if a structure from one side is in the space of another, it loses all tether entirely until system is flipped to the appropriate militia. I say this _currently living_ in FW lowsec as a neutral that’s deployed structures more than once through the many changes Its worth noting though that ‘locking out’ of anchoring for neutrals and enemies is something a vocal few FW groups seem to want, completely ignoring the part where it very much does screw a portion of their own content and tramples the content of others 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/722 "2022-05-13T13:42:35Z")
> [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > should we be seeing, and benefitting from, L and XL structures in highsec? So nobody can set up structures with markets in highsec? That seems a bit… restrictive. As for ‘creating a sense of progression’… that assumes low or null are somehow ‘endgame’ for EVE. For _some_ players, sure, they are. For others… not even close. It just means you’re doubling down on the idea that highsec inhabitants are secondhand citizens in a game where low and null need the ore from highsec as much or more than highsec needs supplies from low and null. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/723 "2022-05-13T13:44:43Z")
Fair enough. As you know, I don’t live there, and I apparently confused one of the proposals for the way things had been redone. 😉 Still, the ‘there are different rules in different parts of lowsec’ still applies. ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/724 "2022-05-13T13:51:09Z")
Maybe he did not know you cannot fit a Market Hub on a medium structure. Only Azbel and up. ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/725 "2022-05-13T13:51:58Z")
We’d need to return to pre-scarcity distribution of ore for this. I wouldn’t say highsec would be considered second class citizens, it just returns to the risk/reward. Could CCP not allow markets in medium structures at with an elevated tax rate. We are discussing development rather than existing mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/726 "2022-05-13T13:53:29Z")
Would you really put a market hub in a structure that can be killed fast and easily? Or trust that the owner can defend something that actually now only has two timers? I am ok with putting large structures like Azbel and Fortizars in highsec. They are easy enough to take down if the need is there to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/727 "2022-05-13T14:00:45Z")
I don’t know, maybe structures in highsec should be harder to destroy given it’s “safer” space but just restrict the structure type. Structures in dangerous space give larger bonuses but are more vulnerable, structures in safe space give terrible bonuses but are resilient. Link the vulnerability to the security status of the system and/or ADM’s. At this point I’m just staring at a bottle of wine not even thinking straight so apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Pernicious\_Cheese](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pernicious_cheese/32/375961_2.png) [@Pernicious\_Cheese](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pernicious_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/728 "2022-05-13T18:06:22Z")
WTF CCP You NEED to change the notifications. Getting my stuff jizzed into asset safety with 0 warning! You need to give players SOME form of notification that a station they have stuff in is going to die. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/729 "2022-05-13T21:14:51Z")
> [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > Could CCP not allow markets in medium structures at with an elevated tax rate. A) Why would you want to put a market into such an easily-destroyed structure? and… B) Why would they need an elevated tax rate? If the goal is to prevent players from operating markets, I have to ask: _why_? There are plenty of player-run market hubs out there to serve areas of highsec that aren’t close to Jita or Amarr. Why screw over highsec players like that? > [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > I don’t know, maybe structures in highsec should be harder to destroy given it’s “safer” space Safer according to who? I know I feel much safer in nullsec than I ever do in highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/730 "2022-05-14T02:11:14Z")
I’m not sure you’re actually reading the posts at all, as I’ve said previously, these are suggestions not based on current mechanics. They are suggestions based on structure mechanics changing depending on system security level and/or ADM’s. It’s great you feel safer in Null, I did too hence the “safer” in inverted commas, it’s not safer which is the problem. An area of space that isn’t policed by concord, capitals are prevalent and additional PvP mechanics are available is safer than highsec. That is disjointed. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/731 "2022-05-14T05:31:21Z")
> [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > I’m not sure you’re actually reading the posts at all, as I’ve said previously, these are suggestions not based on current mechanics. Oh, I definitely am. But you can’t divorce the suggestions from the impacts those suggestions would have. Nothing happens in a vaccum, and if you try to design a set of changes in isolation, you only end up with a raft of unintended consequences the size of a small gas giant. > [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > inverted commas I’m guessing English isn’t your primary language. Not that you’ve made any mistakes or anything, but just FYI, in English, those are quotation marks. > [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](#): > > An area of space that isn’t policed by concord, capitals are prevalent and additional PvP mechanics are available is safer than highsec. Except that the safety in nullsec is 100% because we _work_ for it. We actively work to defend our space. We set standings. More importantly, we establish that if the guy coming into local isn’t set blue, they’re assumed hostile. Nullsec is safer because tens of thousands of man-hours are put in across every sov-holding group, to make it safer for _that_ group in _that_ part of null. What security there is in highsec, OTOH, is effortless and agnostic: Nobody needs to work for it, and everyone benefits from it. Highsec’s safety is f2p, Nullsec’s is ‘Pay Up Front’. Does it still seem disjointed? ---
**Author:** ![Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoflo_rotineque/32/419429_2.png) [@Scoflo\_Rotineque](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoflo_Rotineque)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/732 "2022-05-14T07:56:05Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I’m guessing English isn’t your primary language. Not that you’ve made any mistakes or anything, but just FYI, in English, those are quotation marks It is, but it was gone 3am and the bottle and a half of vino was doing its job nicely but thank you for assuming the role of grammar police, it’s tickled me a bit. I should have been clearer though, the safety I was referring to was directed at structures. Linking it back to the system safety/ADM level, highsec could have structure restrictions but be harder to destroy, Nullsec is unrestricted with regards to structure types so gains the benefits of larger structures but are easier to destroy relatively speaking. Regardless, the entire thread is interesting. It does appear to highlight that a one size fits all doesn’t seem to work across the entirety of New Eden. I am done flinging mud though, it hasn’t stuck so I’ll retreat back to lurking. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746.md?page=35) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746.md?page=37)