# Since when T2 ship manufacturing become such unprofitable garbage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Science & Industry\ **Created:** [July 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273 "2020-07-11T14:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Root\_er](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/root_er/32/184965_2.png) [@Root\_er](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Root_er)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/21 "2020-07-18T13:31:51Z")
Weird how you complain, while others are making a killing. Think T2 components are overpriced? Capitalize on it and other smucks who think that “components should be cheaper than ships, right?” Market PVP is called that for a reason 🙂 T2 components’ purpose right now is to fill the orders of speculation artists and other “predictive” buyers who will make a killing if they make things at just the right time, not on the mass-producers or small-timers. Analyze the market, find a niche, PROFIT. ---
**Author:** ![Doge\_Kado](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doge_kado/32/219977_2.png) [@Doge\_Kado](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doge_Kado)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/22 "2020-07-23T10:41:16Z")
normally u place buy orders when planning produtcions… there are also other way to get materials at lower price than sell orders. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/23 "2020-07-23T14:01:37Z")
This adds trade profit, it does nothing to manufacturing profit. If you buy, e.g., a bunch of half-off materials, you added that asset value _when you purchased the materials_, not when you built them into something. If you buy materials on the cheap, build them into something that’s worth less than the fair market value of the materials, and sell it, you made money on the material trade and then lost some of it again on the manufacturing step when you could have just flipped the materials instead. There is nothing wrong with minimizing costs via buy orders, of course, but you should understand which steps are actually contributing to your bottom line, and to what degree. ---
**Author:** ![vendetta\_Anstian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vendetta_anstian/32/212730_2.png) [@vendetta\_Anstian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/vendetta_Anstian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 6:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/24 "2020-07-25T06:34:02Z")
How are you producing Triglavian items. Those are being sold below cost as well ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/25 "2020-07-25T11:38:50Z")
Meta stuff, yes. But t1, like radiation sinks, weapons and hulls are on the profit. Especially if you farm your own BPC’s in abyss and don’t try to sell them in contracts. I find selling hull on HyperNet quite profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/26 "2020-07-25T11:57:27Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Especially if you farm your own BPC’s in abyss and don’t try to sell them in contracts. Ore you mine is free, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/27 "2020-07-25T12:47:16Z")
It’s better to produce and sell with profit rather than looking for dump person that will spent all profit on BPC and produce for minimal profit. ---
**Author:** ![brice\_kinney](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brice_kinney/32/287708_2.png) [@brice\_kinney](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/brice_kinney)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/28 "2020-07-25T16:32:19Z")
Exactly ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/29 "2020-07-26T13:46:53Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > It’s better to produce and sell with profit rather than looking for dump person that will spent all profit on BPC and produce for minimal profit. I think what you mean is “ore I mine are cheaper than ore other people mine because I just have to pay myself and can work them on the place I produce them rather than have to move them” Which I agree with. (and applies to abyssal stuff too) ---
**Author:** ![Tau\_Cabalander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_cabalander/32/373930_2.png) [@Tau\_Cabalander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Cabalander)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/31 "2020-09-05T07:50:06Z")
Since forever? Some easily found examples, but I didn’t dig deep, so I’m sure there are earlier ones: 2011-09-18 [Building the cool ships](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/73094/#post73094) > [@Tau Cabalander](#): > > I really don’t recommend ship manufacturing as everybody and their grandmother wants to build ships. It can be difficult to compete. Not a great place to start in industry. 2013-05-03 [Looking for info on the T2 BPO Lottery](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/2967456/#post2967456) > [@Tau Cabalander](#): > > > [@Steve Ronuken](#): > > > > The markets pretty much don’t exist. If they did, BPOs wouldn’t be enough to supply them, so the price would rise to the point where people could make a profit with invention. That’s just supply and demand for you. > > > > And it’s not like anyone is being forced to make them at a loss. Only people who would are the same kind of people who would make a Drake at a loss. People who don’t do their research first. > > > [@RubyPorto](#): > > > > Only when the quantity demanded is entirely filled by potential BPO production does invention take a hit. And then anyone with any part of a functioning brain simply doesn’t invent those things. > > Thank you Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto. ![Bear](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/9/09b57a61d52df5c8e3ff86f202d82317996486ed.png) > > Some additional food for thought. Consider the three groups that were only touched upon above: > > Group 1: For some reason, some people feel they have a right to a profit making whatever they want to make. They completely ignore the needs of the market (often driving down prices in the process), then come into this forum and complain that the world doesn’t spin in their preferred direction. > > Group 2: Then there is also the “it’s a game crowd”. They’ve posted in this forum that they don’t care about making profits, because they just like building stuff. They are almost like the “Minerals I Mine Are Free” (MIMAF) crowd, except they do know what they are doing, but they just don’t care. They don’t put a value on their time. > > Group 3: Lastly there is the MIMAF crowd. I like to think they simply don’t know better, unlike group 2. > > Now add the above groups into the mix that Steve Ronuken and RubyPorto mentioned. Start with an item that has such low demand that the few existing T2 BPO meet most of it, then add in manufacturers that sell below a profitable invention cost. There is no room in that market for additional manufacturers seeking to make a profit! > > An advantage for the T2 BPO holders? Possibly as they are the only ones earning any ISK, but they have very limited-by-BPO production capability, and quite a large amount of opportunity cost (many billions). I am personally thankful that they help keep prices down on low demand items. I’d sell the T2 BPO and use the ISK to invest in inventing T2 items the market wants to buy a lot of at a respectable profit. > > Finally I’ll mention that everybody and their grandmother thinks ship manufacturing is sexy. That’s a lot of competitors which further reduces profit margins, and leads to endless 0.01 ISK battles in trade hubs. > > The more you know… ---
**Author:** ![Immaminestuff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/immaminestuff/32/216221_2.png) [@Immaminestuff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Immaminestuff)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/32 "2020-09-08T22:03:54Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > The materials are sourced directly in null, not from the market. > > If you had access to the T2 moon materials, why would you sell any of it on the highsec market? You would manufacture T2 end products and sell those. Well actually that would only make sense if the T2 production actually fetched more money than the base materials, because otherwise you’d still be better off selling the materials you’d actually make more money. If he loses 60M building a Damnation (op’s example I haven’t run the numbers) that means that selling the materials would net you 60M more… I suspect logistics has something to do with it, tho I’m sure that its more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brewlar_kuvakei/32/422694_2.png) [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brewlar_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/33 "2020-09-09T12:16:52Z")
A small number of ships do not have T2BPO many of them have a good margin. Most T2 Ships in eve have a T2BPO, these were given to hand picked players by CCP back in the day. You will have difficulty making profit as the BPO owners do not have to use invention. Eve is not real, pets have always been given free stuff, reinbursed & ect. Ect. Deal with this and be blisfull or quit. Star citizen is also doing the same as is dual universe. There is not a single uncorrupted sandbox out there. FYI, EVE was horrific with this in the past & the GM’'s are still wildly off the hook as is the ISD but Eve is still your best bet. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/34 "2020-09-09T15:47:45Z")
Invention isn’t the Issue, since the cost is negligible. The fact that the T2 BPOs can have higher mineral efficiencies may be part of the unprofitability. However, non-ship T2 stuff, even with a fully researched T2 BPO is still not profitable at Jita market prices. ---
**Author:** ![Tau\_Cabalander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_cabalander/32/373930_2.png) [@Tau\_Cabalander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Cabalander)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/35 "2020-09-11T07:19:34Z")
> [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](#): > > Most T2 Ships in eve have a T2BPO, these were given to hand picked players by CCP back in the day. You will have difficulty making profit as the BPO owners do not have to use invention. I’m pretty sure you didn’t read the old posts [I quoted above](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/31). T2 BPO **_only_** have an advantage on items that very few people want, because you can only use one slot at a time to produce with it. With invention, you can use as many slots as you have and are willing to skill alts for. If T2 BPO are the dominate production method for any item, then that is a really low-demand item that you shouldn’t want to be producing for, as not enough are being purchased! The ship market is messed-up for the other reasons in that same quote I made above. ---
**Author:** ![Pith\_Hurdaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pith_hurdaa/32/198748_2.png) [@Pith\_Hurdaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pith_Hurdaa)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/36 "2020-09-11T08:59:55Z")
No matter how or where you gathered the components for a T2 ship. Once you have them, you can choose to manufacture the ship, and sell it for 250mill or sell directly the materials for 270. People that chooses to do the first, is just missing basic economic concepts. And that is not rare or even bad. If everybody would have economic knowledge, evryone would be rich, and that just doesn´t works, there has to be poors too. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/37 "2020-09-11T12:44:34Z")
Yeah, I’m pretty sure your “basic economic concepts” above left out transport costs to the trade hub. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/38 "2020-09-11T17:35:26Z")
They would if transport costs were very meaningful in the land of alts. Though yes, jump fuel is a minor thing. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/39 "2020-09-11T18:06:51Z")
Time. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/40 "2020-09-11T18:17:15Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Yeah, I’m pretty sure your “basic economic concepts” above left out transport costs to the trade hub. It is more that the component prices are semi-fictional. Components trade in relatively mediocre volumes. Most producers, especially in null, are building their own components, so there is minimal demand for them in Jita. The entire avg daily volume of, e.g., antimatter reactor units sold in the forge could be produced by a single character working at about half capacity in a T2 rigged null raitaru. Crystalline carbonide armor plates would take 8-9 slots (there’s nothing special about these particular items, they’re just the first two I thought of, all T2 components of a similar type trade in comparable volumes, e.g., all armor plates are about 100-175K per day, average, over the last 90 days). So, yeah, if you just look at the price you might think, “I COULD SELL THE COMPONENTS FOR MORE,” but the problem is you have to actually _sell_ the components to realize that, and even capturing 100% of sales in The Forge would leave you overproducing. Sure, you can diversify amongst other components, but you’re still left with an extremely poor ratio of sellability:produceability among those items (not just for yourself, but for all other producers, as well). Put another way, T2 ships/mods/etc are wholesale packaging for T2 components that allows them to be sold at a rate capable of sustaining their production. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/41 "2020-09-11T22:17:10Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Time Is meaningless when it’s an alt account moved at the same time as playing on the main anyway. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273.md?page=3)