# Since when T2 ship manufacturing become such unprofitable garbage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Science & Industry\ **Created:** [July 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273 "2020-07-11T14:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/82 "2020-12-31T03:10:55Z")
> [@Scarabeus\_Sacer](#): > > You can mine Veldspar in high sec and make 50 times that. you can make 33 ares at the same time. still super low. Also you can mine AND build ares. Still very low. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/83 "2020-12-31T05:21:15Z")
Hell, you can build ares while you sleep. You can’t mine while you sleep unless you’re botting. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/84 "2020-12-31T11:30:44Z")
54k isk per hour is 42M isk per day with 3 alts. just farming you make more in the time you relog your alts. ---
**Author:** ![Scarabeus\_Sacer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarabeus_sacer/32/377524_2.png) [@Scarabeus\_Sacer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarabeus_Sacer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/85 "2020-12-31T12:30:37Z")
Doesnt matter, 54k isk per hour is near zero. Its worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Scarabeus\_Sacer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scarabeus_sacer/32/377524_2.png) [@Scarabeus\_Sacer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scarabeus_Sacer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/86 "2021-01-03T02:06:19Z")
You cant. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/87 "2021-01-03T03:20:52Z")
What on earth are you talking about? You can have 33 build slots on an account, and you can absolutely mine while they’re in build. ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/88 "2021-01-03T06:58:14Z")
Wow, no wonder that everything has crappy prices nowadays… Mining don’t make your industry more profitable. Same as flooding market for little isk. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/89 "2021-01-03T12:40:38Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Mining don’t make your industry more profitable. It can. it effectively makes the price of your items cheaper, assuming it’s worth mining to sell in the first place and you are not wasting your time by using them to manufacture. eg it’s worth mining kernite in LS, but refining it to manufacture may or may not be worth it ^^ ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/90 "2021-01-03T12:56:19Z")
I was replaying to guy claiming its worth to producer item for 54 isk/h. Because you can main while production lines are running. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > eg it’s worth mining kernite in LS, but refining it to manufacture may or may not be worth it ^^ It’s making isk by mining. It has nothing to do with produced items. there is zero difference in mining and selling ore for minerals you need vs for example running abyss and buying minerals with isk you make there. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/91 "2021-01-03T13:27:14Z")
> [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > It’s making isk by mining. This specific example was a counter example to my argument, showing that this is not a general case. Yes mining kernite is making isk by mining. Yet mining other ore in HS and using them to manufacture can be a net gain in the acquisition price of minerals used, because taxes, hauling cost, intermediate person, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lis\_Torin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lis_torin/32/204820_2.png) [@Lis\_Torin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lis_Torin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/92 "2021-01-03T14:12:30Z")
Yes it can. But still, this is not related to discussion in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/93 "2021-01-03T14:17:21Z")
It is relatd to : > [@Lis\_Torin](#): > > Mining don’t make your industry more profitable. Mining can make your industry more profitable by reducing the mineral costs. ---
**Author:** ![SCLZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sclz/32/358293_2.png) [@SCLZ](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SCLZ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/94 "2021-01-04T05:20:12Z")
Mining doesn’t make your manufacturing more profitable - the minerals are still worth the same value as buying from the market. You’re just adding a mining profit on top of your manufacturing profit. In the same vain as buying the minerals cheaper from a buy order or otherwise getting a good price on the minerals is adding a trade profit to your manufacturing profit. If you consider the mining as part of your manufacturing profit then you’re undervaluing your minerals and you’re short changing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/95 "2021-01-04T07:44:56Z")
> [@SCLZ](#): > > the minerals are still worth the same value as buying from the market. No they are not. The mineral worth is unrelated. What is related is the acquisition price of the items. In Eve items have different acquisition value depending on where you want them, and when. Just because you can’t do the math does not mean that you can use a general meaningless term like “worth”. So yes mining **can** reduce the acquisition price of the minerals. It’s only “free” when the minerals you get are from ore that you would not sell anyhow, and that is created as a byproduct of an interesting activity… In many cases it’s cheaper, and in some niche cases (kernite, Omber) it’s more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Hunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fish_hunter/32/248430_2.png) [@Fish\_Hunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fish_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/96 "2021-01-06T23:27:33Z")
Ease of sale is a large consideration when selling finished products vs raw materials. Also haulage volume. Ships are typically at least 1/2 the volume of the inputs and since time has value so does compressing your haul trips. As far as minerals, large orders will often depress the market but 10 ravens usually won’t depress the market compared to 94 mil tritanium. Like say i still have 100million units of pyerite in a stack from before resource scarcity. Its typically easier to make something from it that i can sell for a tiny gain instead of hauling the mineral to trade hub and sell. ---
**Author:** ![Jas\_Dor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jas_dor/32/250010_2.png) [@Jas\_Dor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jas_Dor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/97 "2021-01-11T02:56:39Z")
Ore I pirate isn’t exactly free but. . . ---
**Author:** ![Jas\_Dor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jas_dor/32/250010_2.png) [@Jas\_Dor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jas_Dor)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/98 "2021-01-11T03:02:56Z")
So basically what has happened here is that the null sec bonus to structure rigs, means that low / null sec producers have competed the price down to the point where it no longer makes sense for high sec builders. This is happening on items with high mineral compression and a high selling price, meaning that low / null sec builders are maximizing their Isk Per Hour in light of their limited number of build slots. I expect this is being done on the alliance level using alts and is meant to provide funds for the current conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Kamorra\_Umyr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kamorra_umyr/32/245463_2.png) [@Kamorra\_Umyr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kamorra_Umyr)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/99 "2021-01-13T00:34:03Z")
guys, guys, it’s fine, we don’t need ships. ---
**Author:** ![Marvyn\_Nightshade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marvyn_nightshade/32/455724_2.png) [@Marvyn\_Nightshade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marvyn_Nightshade)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/100 "2021-01-19T03:35:35Z")
Adding to that, gotta ask yourself how are you going to get 180 mil isk worth of moon goo transported from deep low sec to Jita? Load it into a jump freighter and hope nobody ganks you? Or build a badarse T2 ship out of it, and fly the badarse T2 ship into Jita and sell it directly? When I make stuff in Null or Lowsec, the first question on my mind is: how am I going to get it to market? ---
**Author:** ![Hink\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hink_yaken/32/247042_2.png) [@Hink\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hink_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273/102 "2021-04-07T14:23:39Z")
> [@Marvyn\_Nightshade](#): > > Or build a badarse T2 ship out of it, and fly the badarse T2 ship into Jita and sell it directly? Nobody that does serious industry flies his ships 1 by 1 to Jita EDIT: Did not intend to necro this thread ☹ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/since-when-t2-ship-manufacturing-become-such-unprofitable-garbage/254273.md?page=6)