# Slowing down the decline of EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205 "2019-09-11T14:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/1 "2019-09-11T14:36:01Z")
Recently I have seen quite a few threads pop up here mainly suggesting heavier emphasis on PVE and reduced risk for highsec dwellers and/or new players as ways to improve player retention and Make Eve Great Again (MEGA). These ideas are usually met with resistance from the content creation people, who believe, at its core, EVE should remain hard, dangerous, and mainly PVP-oriented in order not to lose its identity and current market segment. I am mainly interested in ideas from the latter type of players pertaining to slowing down the decline of EVE. How does EVE retain players while remaining true to its core philosophy, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/2 "2019-09-11T14:38:42Z")
By making mining lasers do damage to targetted modules. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/3 "2019-09-11T14:49:33Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > By making mining lasers do damage to targetted modules. Yellow ! [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/0/d/10d2dc0a2d895eb82ed1d21ac126a5565437c5ac.jpeg "I Smoke Two Joints") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUsv4Lb7EQs) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/4 "2019-09-11T15:04:29Z")
Massively increasing player agency. Decisions matter. Being stupid or lazy means you lose. Being smart and proactive makes you win. No longer ‘everyone gets a medal’. Stop moddycoddling pve in the name of new players. Lower barriers to pvp such that new players (and players in general) can hunt older players. Give new players opportunity to f_ck sh_t up and be the villain. Enable rivalries to form between players by allowing foul play. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/5 "2019-09-11T15:07:52Z")
1. Make wars matter by giving corps/alliances something real to fight over (ie ore). 2. Stop catering to the “it’s my right to be able to own a stations worry free” types 3. Make life hard/challenging again for the NS folks with less JFs 4. Titians should be like unicorns…not mosquito. Set ore levels accordingly (see point #1) 5. Fix FW FFS 6. entice players out of HS with more riches in LS (also less riches in HS) 7. PI needs a whole rework…too passive… …there are more of course… ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/6 "2019-09-11T15:33:33Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Decisions matter. Being stupid or lazy means you lose. so when you start the game, you make one mistake, you leave the game. That’s literally the opposite of “slowing the decline”. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/7 "2019-09-11T15:36:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > so when you start the game, you make one mistake, you leave the game. Strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/8 "2019-09-11T15:40:01Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Lower barriers to pvp such that new players (and players in general) can hunt older players. Give new players opportunity to f _ck sh_ t up and be the villain. Enable rivalries to form between players by allowing foul play. How much lower should it be? You can literally gank Ventures and mining barges in Atrons and be a super villain. You can combat probe someone’s precious MTUs and destroy them. It takes a few hours for people to train into a Tornado and create hell on busy station undocks. What more do you need? Or sov? [Literally a 5 character big alliance can hold sov in null sec now.](http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Chao3_Alliance/structures) How much lower should the hurdles be? Maybe you are in the wrong here. You want ever easier PVP without challenges. You want to see challenges removed that make people feel accomplished when they overcome them. I think that is a bigger issue than a few small hurdles into PVP. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Massively increasing player agency. That has led us to the current problems with super umbrellas, ridiculous Rorq mining yields, CCP being too dumb to even know what to do any more. Maybe a bit less agency would be better? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/9 "2019-09-11T15:46:27Z")
I think the main way to appeal to more players is by making the game more interesting by improving or reiterating on stale features: - Expand on the contract system by allowing more flexible contracts base on various metrics that get collected by the EVE server. - Remove the absurd reinforce layers and timer from most structures. Industrial and similar utility structures can be built as many as you want in a system but have a POCO/POS like ~24h reinforce timer but are cheap. Regular citadels (headquarters) can keep their current mechanic but are limited to only one per system. - Remove the magic asset teleportation system without replacement (at least for industrial/utility structures). - Expand on some stale features like PI and finally introduce PvP elements to it as it was envisioned like a decade ago. - Completely rework the wardec system. Base corps have no features but can’t be wardeced. To upgrade a corp you need a citadel and online corp services. Winning a war should be rewarding and losing should be devastating to a corp. - Make it possible for a wartarget to actively hide from locators - Completely rework the locator agents as they where probably never touched in over 10 years and it shows. - Bring back a watchlist like feature tied to wardec that can possibly be disrupted by the defender with some new mechanics. This is just from the top of my head. Maybe some more things come to mind later. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/10 "2019-09-11T15:46:35Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > How much lower should it be? New players wardeccing and new players ganking on non-dedicated ganking alts would be a good start. Athanor owners ganking or wardeccing people who steal their ore. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Maybe you are in the wrong here. You want ever easier PVP without challenges. You want to see challenges removed that make people feel accomplished when they overcome them. I think that is a bigger issue than a few small hurdles into PVP. The hurdles to pvp are not merely small. That’s why hardly anyone does it. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > That has led us to the current problems with super umbrellas, ridiculous Rorq mining yields, CCP being too dumb to even know what to do any more. Maybe a bit less agency would be better? You don’t know what player agency is. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/11 "2019-09-11T15:49:16Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > - Make wars matter by giving corps/alliances something real to fight over (ie ore). They thought we’d fight over passive money moons too! > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > - Make life hard/challenging again for the NS folks with less JFs What do you mean by this? Nerfing jump freighters is really not going to help anyone. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > - Titians should be like unicorns…not mosquito. Set ore levels accordingly (see point #1) It’s waaaay too late for that. Titans are also no longer the hammer for every nail. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > 1. Fix FW FFS > 2. entice players out of HS with more riches in LS (also less riches in HS) I wholeheartedly agree. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/12 "2019-09-11T15:49:53Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > New players wardeccing and new players ganking on non-dedicated ganking alts would be a good start. Nothing is stopping new players from wardecing other people. That’s why these useless 1 man corp wars pop up all over the place in recent months. You can salvage your terrible security status with tags. That is already fixed and possible, and provides opportunities to do weekend ganks while doing other stuff like ISK farming during the week. What more do you need? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Athanor owners ganking or wardeccing people who steal their ore. That is a funny suggestion. It costs more to gank ore leechers than you get from your moon. That is why no one does it. That’s a challenge to overcome. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/13 "2019-09-11T15:52:41Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Nothing is stopping new players from wardecing other people. Link… > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > You can salvage your terrible security status with tags. That is already fixed and possible, and provides opportunities to do weekend ganks while doing other stuff like ISK farming during the week. You don’t understand ganking mechanics either then. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > That is a funny suggestion. It costs more to gank ore leechers than you get from your moon. Oh does it? > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Nothing is stopping new players from wardecing other people ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/14 "2019-09-11T15:55:27Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Link… Link to what? All you need is some ISK, a structure and a target. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You don’t understand ganking mechanics either then. How so? You need to elaborate more if you want to counter-argue against a full sentence point. Obtuse 5 word phrases don’t work. Or your point of “not needing dedicated ganking alts” makes no sense. With tags you can remove the negative standing consequences from the ganks and do other things the rest of the time. The only negative consequence that remains is the killright. Most people don’t make these public. And if it was made public, you have some fun potential for a fight with someone who takes it. So even easier PVP for a new player that learns to know what they are doing. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/15 "2019-09-11T15:58:04Z")
Triglavian player faction where every triod must syncopate outward as becomes a true well-embiggened Trianguloid. Eclade. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/16 "2019-09-11T15:59:21Z")
Confront new players with the real EvE in NPE. Show them what it means to play in a sandbox with non-consensual PvP. Then they can make an informed decision about staying or leaving. Especially the aspect of loss needs to be taught well. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/17 "2019-09-11T15:59:27Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Link to what? All you need is some ISK, a structure and a target. A link to new players carrying out decs. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > How so? You need to elaborate more if you want to counter-argue against a full sentence point. Obtuse 5 word phrases don’t work. Kill rights and not sec status. Sec status has always been easy to maintain with a mix of ratting and ganking. But kill rights cannot be removed and essentially restrict the hi-sec character to disposal ships for a month. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/18 "2019-09-11T16:00:44Z")
So a consequence of your actions. And a consequence that you can use to easily get more PVP if you do it right. Good that you mentioned it. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Decisions matter. Being stupid or lazy means you lose. Already forgotten your previous post? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > A link to new players carrying out decs. [Jedi knight Meditation universe X | Alliance | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99009348/) - full of 2019 people. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/19 "2019-09-11T16:08:49Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Show them what it means to play in a sandbox with non-consensual PvP. Then they can make an informed decision about staying or leaving. Especially the aspect of loss needs to be taught well. Isn’t that being taught well by the Career Agents when you are forced to lose a ship in the Military missions? I think the agent tells you gently that you cannot always expect to keep your ship alive, that sometimes odds are overwhelmingly against you. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205/20 "2019-09-11T16:16:09Z")
You haven’t linked a corp of new players deccing others. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/slowing-down-the-decline-of-eve/189205.md?page=2)