# So how do we persuade new players that losing ships is ok? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741 "2020-04-18T13:48:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/126 "2020-04-20T17:54:18Z")
Persuading ? “You WILL eat the veggies and you WILL like it !” doesn’t make veggies any better tasting. Developing taste takes a while, and only if one is willing to make the effort, try and try again. Three factors are important for rookies to cope with losses imo. 1. understanding why and how a loss occurred; 2. a perspective, a way out financially and a way to avoid similar losses; 3. adjusting (expectations) to life in New Eden, it’s no use trying to play a game you don’t accept at its core. Any help more experienced players can provide on any of those points will help rookies. On the other hand, those that are able to achieve this on their own are undoubtedly the ones who will really enjoy the game and become long term EvE players. Clearly, the lesson with the suicide mission in the advanced military career is not enough. Lots of creativity for the devs is possible to drive home that particular message, an Aura voice over, a cut scene explaining death and immortality, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/128 "2020-04-20T18:02:13Z")
> [@Norrin\_Ellis](#): > > The only thing that matters is that the PvP community is comprised almost entirely of genuine lunatics, and because a lot of PvE players have found ways over the years to minimize their losses, CCP has decided to crap on us and make it an even bigger hassle to do so. Utter bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/129 "2020-04-20T18:04:17Z")
> [@Midwa\_Jenkins](#): > > Losing ships on gank, DC, crazy npc spawns is not ok 🙂 Ganking is PvP, so why is it not okay? ---
**Author:** ![Mara\_Pahrdi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mara_pahrdi/32/277369_2.png) [@Mara\_Pahrdi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mara_Pahrdi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/130 "2020-04-20T18:04:42Z")
> [@Norrin\_Ellis](#): > > That, however, is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that the PvP community is comprised almost entirely of genuine lunatics, and because a lot of PvE players have found ways over the years to minimize their losses, CCP has decided to crap on us and make it an even bigger hassle to do so. I guess we had two completely different experiences in EVE online. The PvPers that picked me up during a HS mining ops turned out to be a bunch of very experienced, friendly and helpful players who knew the game inside out. I admit that none of them is playing anymore, at least I haven’t seen any of their characters known to me in a long, long time. Besides that HS alliance, some of them had alts in null entities, others lived in low sec and some used to populate wormholes. If one of those guys would ask me to join him in an endeavour, where I was sure to lose ship and pod, I wouldn’t hesitate even a split second to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/131 "2020-04-20T18:11:05Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Clearly, the lesson with the suicide mission in the advanced military career is not enough. This is not enough because it’s so scripted. It’s an NPC mission handed out by an NPC, with a scripted NPC response after you lose your ship. It’s all neatly contained and packaged, like one of those cutscenes in video games where you are SUPPOSED to die. This is in contrast to all other forms of fighting that take place, which can happen at any time without any preparation, no NPC mission or a nice follow up message. You get scramed, blown up, and end up in your home station with no explanation. That’s the kind of death we need to explain to new players is OKAY and completely part of the game. The scripted crap is too easy to dismiss. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/132 "2020-04-20T18:16:13Z")
> [@Norrin\_Ellis](#): > > The only thing that matters is that the PvP community is comprised almost entirely of genuine lunatics It’s lunacy to make such claims. Competitive games, why do we like them, you think ? > [@Norrin\_Ellis](#): > > Players do have moral agency, and most of them seek out competitive imbalances because they are at best sadists and at worst sociopaths. They are looking to ruin the game for another player, and little else. I would almost ask you to show on the doll where it hurts, but that would be out of character. A preposterous claim is just that, and highly disrespectful of an entire community. What have you been doing here since 2008 ? Ship spinning ? > [@Norrin\_Ellis](#): > > EVE players are a collection of bullies looking to pick on folks engaged in constructive rather than destructive pursuits, as evidenced by referring to them as “food.” “Food” comes from the position in the Darwinian food chain. This is a survival game. Odd you haven’t figured that out in 12 years. ---
**Author:** ![State\_Soldier\_1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/state_soldier_1/32/336854_2.png) [@State\_Soldier\_1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/State_Soldier_1)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/133 "2020-04-20T18:32:22Z")
I just started flying t2 and t3. Lost a few already. Always flew t1 frigs and lost a ton. Ever since that European guy made a comment on teamspeak about me losing too many ships. They were trying to maintain a clean kb to goto boresec. But now i just dgaf. And Im having a blast. ---
**Author:** ![Tintallei\_Sharan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tintallei_sharan/32/373000_2.png) [@Tintallei\_Sharan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tintallei_Sharan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/134 "2020-04-20T18:38:10Z")
> [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > You don’t. ESPECIALLY when new players have even less ISK, and resources have been kicked in the balls and everything is going to be 3-4 times what it used to be… > > Now that literally everything is MORE valuable even LESS risk will be taken. > > LOGIC. 👍🏼 Nah. Every ship that make sens for a New Player to pilot (I mean, under the period of time he can still be considered “New”) still are and will remain very affordables. “New Players” who are actually several months old already but never progressed, or who believe that they should just rush into a Battleship after two weeks, might suffer a bit. But that’s only a legitimate consequence of their choices and playstyle. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Let’s be clear: to an _actual_ new player, it **is** an ISK thing. You aren’t born with 10 million ISK in EVE. You don’t start the game with knowledge of where and how to buy things cheap, or which ships and builds are cost effective. > > You don’t start the game with 10 throwaway ships you can learn with. Every ship you have is a limited resource, and it takes time, ISK and effort to get modules to put on that ship. Yes, I know experienced players can throw a T1 ship together in 5 minutes with stuff from their inventory and not even notice. But the thread is about actual new players, and that’s not what they do. Well, a lot of corps do give away such frigates for free. And, if you take the time to learn a bit of basis on the internet before going all the way on the game itself, which I would advice everybody to do with a game like EvE, it’s very easy to be able to create those frigates yourself after less than a week. I linked a video earlier in the thread, of something easily doable as a Newbro, well explained by the video, and that will let you build very easily ten frigates before you loose even one. Nah. As stated in the previous paragraph, I believe the problem revolve more around New players wanting to get into big ships way too fast, which create the impression of an “ISK problem”, since they believe that this 100M fit is what they MUST have. It’s not a problem to build actual rookie frigates with a starting activity. We had an example earlier with this guy complaining about his “5M fit” doing “level 1 missions”. That’s ridiculous, I never used fits that were estimated to more than 2M before the one month mark, and was able to do level 2 and the First Epic Arc without trouble during this first month. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I’ve said it a hundred times before and I’ll say it a hundred times more… if you want something to occur in the game you have to **design the game to support and encourage it**. Well… it kinda is. The game, IMO, encourage you to put a bit of effort to understand how things are going, and giving so many opportunities for players to kill you, I think, is not too bad at explaining you that dying in this game could and should happen. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > These things have been obvious for over a decade now. The fact that CCP and most vets are blind to what will **actually** mature new players into vets is why player population has gotten down to crisis levels. I don’t know. Having started in December, I’m now ~4 months old into the game and have no plan on leaving. I don’t believe what you propose would have influenced that, neither possitively or negatively. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/135 "2020-04-20T18:41:19Z")
I’m curious how many people, id imagine a smaller percentage, put several thousand in PLEX just to be able to buy a character thats skilled up, and therefore not sure if they are a new player or not ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/136 "2020-04-20T18:44:34Z")
Most people with that kind of thought processes aren’t smart enough to buy a skilled character. Instead, they just buy PLEX, sell it on the market for ISK, and use that to buy ships they think are “end game” strength. Then they proceed to lose them immediately. One of the examples that comes to mind is the Gyrostabilizer Widow. > **[Widow | Hangover Veisalgia | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/52629324/)** > > Hangover Veisalgia (FUBAR SANCTUARY) lost their Widow in Abudban (Heimatar) Total Value: 2,101,536,808.60 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/137 "2020-04-20T18:47:15Z")
Well i was just thinkin say for instance someone bought Chribba. they are a new player, but since they cannot pass themselves off as Chribba, and without knowing Chribba sold his toon, how could someone know that its totally new eve player. Just used chribba as an example cause last i checked his character hasn’t been sold, and he’s known all over eve, and per rules, you can’t pass yourself off as the old chribba. ---
**Author:** ![Norrin\_Ellis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norrin_ellis/32/150282_2.png) [@Norrin\_Ellis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norrin_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/138 "2020-04-20T20:11:07Z")
A recent change now shows character transfers in the employment history. You still can’t know if it was purchased by a new player or not, but you can see the toon was transferred. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/139 "2020-04-20T23:18:08Z")
Two men enter… ---
**Author:** ![Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghost_o_mo/32/376789_2.png) [@Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghost_O_Mo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/140 "2020-04-21T00:35:27Z")
I think one of the greatest shames in the progression of the game (in addition transforming high-sec from the Wild West into a police state) is the growth of ship strength over the years. Since T1 frigates have all but lost relevance in PvP, pvp is no longer either available or affordable for the new player in the scale or scope of what the game once offered. Huge blow to retention. ---
**Author:** ![Kace\_Robins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kace_robins/32/484596_2.png) [@Kace\_Robins](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kace_Robins)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/141 "2020-04-21T01:00:58Z")
You can still fly t1 hulls if you stick to novice plexes. It’s the only “affordable” PvP in the game (other than joining a blob as F1 monkey). ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/142 "2020-04-21T02:22:03Z")
To be honest, I watched the game evolve away from this scrappy ship-tossing sort of play. Perhaps it was a sort of creep derived from skills increasing over the years? Back in 2006 when I started, this sort of PVP-fu stuff with frigates was the thing. The rifter was very popular. I recall with fond memory a player named Lady Spank who was big on the incursus. You hardly hear about it now. or see stuff like that. But perhaps some kind of arms race occured. You needed more and more - certainly more than a rifter - to win. And that took more grind, more ISK, and more numbers. Then incursions came, and the bling boats followed. But even before that, the Min-Maxers with mission fits figured down to the last .001 ISK per hour. As much as I didn’t like the doctrines and ways of TEARS and their loot-mechanics-fu, I can understand what motivated them. Many have bitten back at what has been the death of innocence in Eve. When you can take a rupture and be in a pirate fleet and experience lols and f\*\*kery that made not getting all the IRL things done well worth it. Now it’s bling, and numbers, and PLEX tanking, and krabbism. Fack it all. It does seem like the boat was missed, where noobs could be encouraged to just go brawl with T1 ships, but they’ll get blobbed by T2 and even T3 ships then called losers for even trying. Who wants to subscribe to that? Excuse me while I reminisce. ---
**Author:** ![Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghost_o_mo/32/376789_2.png) [@Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghost_O_Mo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/143 "2020-04-21T02:49:10Z")
Can flipping was the golden standard of PvP. It was savage, personal, and cheap. It incentivized veterans to fly weak looking cheap ships… and incentivized noobs to shoot. It made stories, sparked interactions and friendships, and started wars. It was casual, and let people dabble. I led an army of noobs in this game for a couple years teaching it and technical flying as an art… and had a hell of a good time doing it. The death of can flipping and crime was the start of stagnation of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/144 "2020-04-21T02:51:11Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > EvE online is not real life. Are you totally deranged? ![30day](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/1/a1aecb906108202c20896349560a31b234a95d84.jpeg) I spend way too much of my life playing Eve Online ---
**Author:** ![Kace\_Robins](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kace_robins/32/484596_2.png) [@Kace\_Robins](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kace_Robins)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/145 "2020-04-21T03:39:17Z")
You need a girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741/146 "2020-04-21T04:12:29Z")
I do, her name is Lily ![Lily-Eve](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/7/771540eec0051cb3e980ea2ab5cdbe270d750234.jpeg) She works in to importing and exporting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-how-do-we-persuade-new-players-that-losing-ships-is-ok/233741.md?page=8)