# So I made a new character. It was eye opening **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182 "2023-05-10T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Syrias\_Bizniz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syrias_bizniz/32/369244_2.png) [@Syrias\_Bizniz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syrias_Bizniz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/181 "2023-05-13T10:05:22Z")
> Nobody likes a challenge. > New players ONLY want easy games. > If you don’t agree, you are the other political party! I do like a challenge, but waiting for a timer to tick down is hardly a challenge, is it. If you spun that a bit further, it might become a challenge for someone on a tight budget playing video games as an escape from the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/182 "2023-05-13T10:07:28Z")
> [@Syrias\_Bizniz](#): > > but waiting for a timer to tick down is hardly a challenge Then stop ■■■■■■■ waiting and play the game instead. ---
**Author:** ![Syrias\_Bizniz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syrias_bizniz/32/369244_2.png) [@Syrias\_Bizniz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syrias_Bizniz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/183 "2023-05-13T10:09:13Z")
I do in the free time I have, as an alpha mind you, because I have so many SP that I can do many things I like, and have the ISK to buy the tools that give me a good perfomance even without the full skills. New players don’t have that luxury. Maybe there would be more new players, or more of the ones that start would keep playing, if they had a fraction of that luxury (the skills). We don’t know, but again, my point is: Let’s try it and see. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/184 "2023-05-13T10:13:48Z")
You can buy PLEX. ---
**Author:** ![Syrias\_Bizniz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syrias_bizniz/32/369244_2.png) [@Syrias\_Bizniz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syrias_Bizniz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/185 "2023-05-13T10:16:04Z")
For what, I am having fun, because as I mentioned, I can do a lot of things. New players will never be able to do what I can unless they spend a year training, paying for Omega. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/186 "2023-05-13T10:17:03Z")
Good. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/187 "2023-05-13T10:20:33Z")
> [@Syrias\_Bizniz](#): > > Not giving SP does the same, everyone is looking for better ships to do the things they like doing. Exactly my point about a wrong approach: what can you do with what you already have. _It’s never the ship that makes the pilot a better player_ > [@Syrias\_Bizniz](#): > > The limiting factor has primarily been ISK I agree, especially since the changes to industry and mining - and that’s mostly as an observer, I don’t have an axe to grind with ccp on that matter, in fact I built my first dreadnaught _solo_ this year, mining all the raw resources myself on a single account, and doing 95% of the manufacturing. The bigger challenge however is actually fitting the thing - which is an ISK issue, not an sp one, in my case. > [@Syrias\_Bizniz](#): > > I’m fully for trying out things in a 20 year old game that has a problem with player numbers compared to 5 or 10 years ago. That is where we differ in opinion. I would tread very carefully, honor the original design of the original crew, and not turn it into some frankenstein manifestation. I’d rather create a new game entirely, and keep Murphy safely tucked away before he proves his Law is the Law. lol. > [@Syrias\_Bizniz](#): > > Back then, Battlecruisers and Destroyers were non-racial Yeah, I only had Amarr up to 5. But CCP gave us plenty of advance warning about the class turning racial, and I managed to skill all of them up to 5. Yay, baby steps to becoming fully cross-trained, in fact it did me a big favor 🙂 You know when you do the daily sp hunt for npc’s ? And you come across a new player in an expensive ship hanging in an anomaly or a belt, shooting bb pellets ? You just zoom in with your little t1 frigate and pewpew the npc’s right under his nose because clearly he is clueless ? It happens every day, literally. You see people flying shiny faction hulls, because they’re supposed to be better … Yeah, they _are_ better, if you know what you’re doing. And _they_ don’t know **yet**. Giving them more free sp and more isk is only going to make it worse. And then it will be on to the next anti-gank thread, lol. It may all sound a bit elitist, but I’ll be the first to confess that I’ve made all the mistakes in EvE, I’m still making mistakes (fewer at least) and losing ships, still suck at pvp. But I’m having a good time discovering and learning - which the game provides continuously because the difficulty factor is of course your opponents which are humans (after having achieved at least a level of understanding of the pure mechanics). ---
**Author:** ![Skylar\_Cloud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skylar_cloud/32/417720_2.png) [@Skylar\_Cloud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skylar_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/188 "2023-05-13T10:36:09Z")
Willkommen @Jasmin_Acami to the forum PvP, While I do agree it is easy enough to “learn Eve” as I stated in my last post, what you are describing is an Omega account who has experienced the start up. If Alpha players (such as myself) apply themselves to learning the game, they will be successful in roughly a month. There is nothing wrong with buying Omega or Plex, it only becomes a necessary evil when you want to “win the game”. We all know that is never going to happen. By the way, it told me to welcome you to the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/189 "2023-05-13T10:54:13Z")
A few people have mention catching up, why should new players expect to catch up with someone who has committed 20 years of playing . Skills are of course essential but the emphasis should be on player skill which is more important in many areas, just because you have the skill points to fly a paladin doesn’t mean you’ll be any good in it. As long as all skill lvls have things to do in eve, thats the important thing and an understanding of what a group can achieve over a solo player . Maybe we should start a low skilled corp with as many players as possible and try out some of these supposedly hard things ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/190 "2023-05-13T11:00:53Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > Maybe we should start a low skilled corp with as many players as possible and try out some of these supposedly hard things Like a new Brave Newbies ? A new Red vs. Blue ? Best idea I heard in a long while ! ---
**Author:** ![Tahiro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tahiro/32/380789_2.png) [@Tahiro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tahiro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/191 "2023-05-13T11:01:31Z")
wow, so much polemic hyperbole, silly arguments and gatekeeping in this thread, nearly r/eve levels… balancing things with time and isk (also related to time) in a 20y old game is already questionable. the fact that there is not a single non monetarized “catchup” mechanic doesnt make it any better. sadly there probably wont be any big changes in that regard, since its one of ccp’s cash cows. i always found the skill system in eve lackluster and very unrewarding, you just have to wait and/or pay. skills like the mentioned magic 14 and other support skills makes this even worse, since they dont offer a different gaming experience like ships and weapon skills. (i am not talking about performance, its obvious that skills make a huge difference in challenging content) with nearly all sub cap support skills maxed, perception/willpower mapping and 24/7 365 a cerebral accelerator running, the time to train in to a new hull/weapon system feels somewhat reasonable. its a good thing that newbros can get in to all kind of different content faster and competing there. the new player retention rate would most likely benefit from it. for that reason i would not mind if the training time of the former mentions skills gets reduced, or newbros get more sp in there by default. i would also like if newbros get more remaps per year than a vet. the newbro has to crosstrain a lot and would greatly benefit from it and vets dont get negatively affected by this all that much since they most likely have long skills in the queue anyways. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Voice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_voice/32/386683_2.png) [@The\_Voice](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Voice)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/192 "2023-05-13T11:04:27Z")
I was actually surpriced how much a new player can do nowadays. Running combat anomalies without even a single skill trained in a destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/193 "2023-05-13T11:25:53Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > As long as all skill lvls have things to do in eve, thats the important thing and an understanding of what a group can achieve over a solo player . This is the crucial element, the actual “magic moment” in EVE. The OP and Syrias seem to be arguing from the element of “The _only_ **interesting** things to do in EVE are _advanced skills_ things”, and think getting new players into advanced-skills related activity is helpful. They’re completely missing out that actual new players are entirely unprepared to engage in advanced skill activities with advanced-skill ships and modules. From a conceptual understanding, from a player skill, and from a “can you afford to lose it?” point of view. When teaching anyone a new system of thought and behavior, you don’t plunge into advanced mechanics. You start with the simple basics, give them one or two things to master. If the student only has a couple things to learn and a couple tools to use, he focuses on those things and learns to use them. As soon as he has a good grasp of those tasks and tools, you introduce the next ones. Again, since they’re few and his only focus, he learns those, and moves upward and onward. You don’t take a grade 1 student into a library, dump 200 books and 80 tools in a wheelbarrow, and tell him “There’s your education kid, come back when you’ve finished it all!”. From **actual interaction with literally hundreds** of new players, I can state categorically that the issues of an awkward interface they don’t easily learn, minimal guidance on “what do I do next”, and the lack of a more visible “reward system” to reinforce that they are growing and progressing are all far, far more relevant to player retention than “ **I didn’t start with enough SP to do the things I want** ”. I’m perfectly fine with significantly increasing SP gain for new players - in small increments, as they play various aspects of the game, as a reward incentive for progress, and as part of a guided achievement tree presented to them so they _always_ have some clear notion of a thing they can “do next”. SP is fine as part of a **player growth, goal-setting, interaction and reward** system. As a “startup giveaway”, it’s just a convenience and encouragement to vets, bots and farmers creating disposable or multiple alts that they want to use to _immediately_ increase their resources. Truly new players have **no need** of a T2 ship with T2 modules, or cloaks, or cynos. They **do** have a desperate need for goal-setting, a feeling of progress, and interaction with other players. Startup giveaways provide none of that. ---
**Author:** ![Fifie\_Brindacier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifie_brindacier/32/373279_2.png) [@Fifie\_Brindacier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifie_Brindacier)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/194 "2023-05-13T11:28:11Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Give everyone free titans I would reprocess it for sure! 😃 > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > how about omega for free The devs need to eat, too, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![Syrias\_Bizniz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syrias_bizniz/32/369244_2.png) [@Syrias\_Bizniz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syrias_Bizniz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/195 "2023-05-13T11:29:03Z")
> Giving them more free sp and more isk is only going to make it worse. I don’t understand how ‘free ISK’ keeps appearing in this discussion. > That is where we differ in opinion. I would tread very carefully, honor the original design of the original crew, and not turn it into some frankenstein manifestation. I’d rather create a new game entirely, and keep Murphy safely tucked away before he proves his Law is the Law. lol. I also feel like removing/granting the magic 14 to everyone would not bee frankensteining the game. New players would have ships with more generous fitting space, better navigation skills and capacitor life, could target further out and not drop out of warp on a few odd big systems traversing space (which i don’t feel like is a big deal anyways so whatever), and would have to spend less of their training time to get there, and could spend more of their training time into trying different things or specializing. And, if implemented correctly (Which is dangerous, cause CCP), old Players who somehow miraceously have not trained all the Magic 14 to max yet, could also benefit from it, or get SP refunded which they could spend on other stuff. If done properly, OP’s suggestion could be a win-win-win. New players win out without knowing, old players win through more SP, CCP could win by increasing the rate of new players sticking with the game. Just like the old learning skills. ---
**Author:** ![Syrias\_Bizniz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syrias_bizniz/32/369244_2.png) [@Syrias\_Bizniz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syrias_Bizniz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/196 "2023-05-13T11:47:04Z")
Thanks for pointing out the other stuff that is also highly discouraging, for example the UI or lacking guidance. The UI, as a returning player, was also a little bit challenging compared to how it was before. Maybe it could be changed through a menu, where it’s standardly set to ‘New player’ and only shows the stuff you need for the first 2 hours, and whenever a Career Agent teaches you something new, he shows you from where to grab the additional buttons and stick them to your neocom bar. Vets could uncheck it, and have all the standard buttons / custumize it themselves. For the goal-setting, the SP point is also viable. For the ‘Can you afford to lose it?’/ISK-Side, that is oftenly brought into this thread: How exactly would, say, removal/granting of magic 14 change that? A new player would still start in a Frigate, having to work his way through the available/clearable content and generate ISK before being able to afford something he ‘can’t afford to lose’. And no SP requirement will ever change that. Not for Titans, and not for a Helios. And there’s no guarantee that even if someone has spent millions of SP to get 100% out of the possible skill influenced performance bonuses of a ship that he will know how to fly it. People that learn will learn, people that will not learn will continue to whelp expensive ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/197 "2023-05-13T12:20:18Z")
A bunch of people are invoking the idea of „catching up“ unironically and genuinely using it as a motivational reason for changes. I am immediately skeptical of the arguments because „catching up“ mentality comes from entirely different games than Eve and have really distorted ideas, in my experience, of the game: - Catching up skill points? SP only gates which ship you can undock in, and if you have a very specific ship in mind it doesn’t take long to accumulate the SP necessary to do so. It takes X million SP for the big ones. All the vets who did that 20 years ago spent the next 18 accumulating SP for other things, they don’t „pull up the ladder behind“ and they don’t increase the SP requirement for everyone else. They don’t make the cost 5X-and-counting SP. That’s what „catching up“ means: newbies having to pay 5X _now_ for a skill in skillpoints and a vet only having to pay X SP all those years ago. This never happened so there’s no „catching up“. - Catching up in assets? It takes time playing the game or IRL money. A vet having more stuff doesn’t mean they reach „end game“, it just means they can afford to get blown up a lot (and if some newb does it then they’re catching up in assets). - Catching up in game knowledge? Yeah, it takes time playing the game to acquire it. - Catching up in „owning“ space? You can blow up your enemies, and if you can do it better than the complacent vets then you’re „catching up“ no problem. There’s null sec regions in flux, and the diplo game is available for all ambitious capsuleers equally. Server resets are the only way to „catch up“ here and that’s a ridiculous proposition. So yeah, in my mind people unironically talking about „catching up“ are holding the game wrong or have mismanaged their own expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/198 "2023-05-13T12:34:45Z")
Every new player deserves ten free killmails. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/199 "2023-05-13T12:49:12Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Here’s an experiment for ccp to conduct: put a very new hire - without any experience of EvE - _into a ship of his/her choice, with all possible skills, mods, implants and boosters,_ and order your freshly minted, naieve and anonymous pilot to go out and survive. > > You know what’s going to happen, we all know it. prove me wrong ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/200 "2023-05-13T12:56:59Z")
Let them eat reconstituted corpse cake. —Gadget likes the icing [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=11)