# So I made a new character. It was eye opening **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182 "2023-05-10T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/443 "2023-05-18T22:00:54Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > No no. I’m sent into battle I want top-shelf state-of-the-art stuff or that battle will do without me. What battle ? In 111 days you’ve achieved the amazing feat of zero killboard. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/444 "2023-05-18T22:14:01Z")
Probably because Titan V is not ready yet, can’t undock without it. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/445 "2023-05-19T00:59:25Z")
> [@Alfred\_Kring](#): > > I’m writing this [guide to the AIR career program](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13niDVf6gKZi6uwdrCE6MAo7I6IAr9S22S8QDeVWj0wE/edit?usp=drivesdk), on how to get most of the skillpoints in that program on a new character. Great idea for the guide, I’ll give it a look when I’ve got more time. > [@Alfred\_Kring](#): > > I don’t see much of a problem, although perhaps the rate of skill acquisition could be faster. Some time last summer, I had some convos with a new guy, self-described “gamer”, who liked the idea of a more challenging game. He’d put in a few days already, done his homework, started googling some things. Doing security missions and combat anomalies because he was combat-oriented, but wasn’t much interested in being fodder for PvP-vets at the time. After some discussion and googling, he decided his long term goal was a Gila, and we figured he could use a Caracal as a stepping stone, and also build skills for the Gila and also potential FW skills. Another guy and I in the help channel helped him build a skill plan for it. Long story short, when he looked at the days to train for either the Caracal or the Gila, he just laughed and said “Are these guys serious? Over 3 months for a cruiser fit? Over a year for a good Gila fit?” I explained he could cut those times in half with an Omega sub but he was pretty much done with the concept by then. So, myself I have no problem with the EVE training system, I don’t care if it stays the same or if they change it. And of course one can’t derive too much from a few anecdotes. That said, it’s been my experience that the “progression rate” in EVE is a considerable barrier to new player retention. At least, when combined with several of the other flaws in EVE’s design, new players often seem to hit a point where they just say “Yeah I’ll just park it for a couple months and see” and then never show up again. At any rate, hope your AIR Career guide goes well, and helps give some players more reasons to stick around! ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/446 "2023-05-19T01:07:01Z")
You don’t need everything T2 to work well, especially not in a Gila. An alpha newbie could be in a perfectly workable Gila in less than 2 months and do completely fine in combat sites and missions. And he could start flying it way earlier just waiting for some of the the skills to flesh out. That doesn’t even take the 1 mil referral sp into account so the _real_ answer is “pretty much right away”. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/447 "2023-05-19T03:00:27Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Long story short, when he looked at the days to train for either the Caracal or the Gila, he just laughed and said “Are these guys serious? Over 3 months for a cruiser fit? Over a year for a good Gila fit?” > > I explained he could cut those times in half with an Omega sub but he was pretty much done with the concept by then. That is nonsense. I just checked out the Absolute Order all T1 Gila fit on my new Omega account that is 3 weeks old. It said 1 day and 10 hours of training to do. So 23 days in total…but that would have been _way_ less if I’d trained for the Gila from day 1 and not done other skills I have done. I checked out the corresponding T2 fit, and it says 1 month and 13 days for T2 drones and just 27 days for T1 drones. So even that is just over 2 months in total…but once again would have been way less if I’d trained for just the Gila right from the start. Never mind 6 months…I’d say 6 weeks is more like it. ---
**Author:** ![Hollie\_Swoons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hollie_swoons/32/368128_2.png) [@Hollie\_Swoons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hollie_Swoons)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/448 "2023-05-19T07:30:20Z")
> [@Minin\_alnigh\_Lon](#): > > I already make Catalysts 😃 So far only for me but I should start selling Hi! I would like to purchase from you if it’s ok. What else do you manufacture? > [@Minin\_alnigh\_Lon](#): > > I want to reprocess some of them but I’m not sure if I should Keep any module you are not familiar with, do not sell or reprocess until you are sure you don’t care about the item and check it’s price at your local main market ( Rens, Dodixie, Amarr, Jita… ) This website will be useful to you. [https://everef.net/categories/7](https://everef.net/categories/7) ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/449 "2023-05-19T08:12:08Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Some time last summer, I had some convos with a new guy, self-described “gamer”, who liked the idea of a more challenging game. He’d put in a few days already, done his homework, started googling some things. Doing security missions and combat anomalies because he was combat-oriented, but wasn’t much interested in being fodder for PvP-vets at the time. > > After some discussion and googling, he decided his long term goal was a Gila, and we figured he could use a Caracal as a stepping stone, and also build skills for the Gila and also potential FW skills. > > Another guy and I in the help channel helped him build a skill plan for it. > > Long story short, when he looked at the days to train for either the Caracal or the Gila, he just laughed and said “Are these guys serious? Over 3 months for a cruiser fit? Over a year for a good Gila fit?” > > I explained he could cut those times in half with an Omega sub but he was pretty much done with the concept by then ☝ Over three months training to get into a well-fitted Cruiser but the Skill Queue doesn’t hold players back… sure. How many times over has that scenario happened? I’m sure at least 50,000 times in 10 years. There went all your missing subs, CCP. > [@Githany\_Red](#): > > > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > > > How would a newbie know about brisc? > > I thought that too > [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > Everybody knows about Brisc > > Your face and name are plastered on billboards in NPC stations. **DUH** > > PS: And it literally says: “ **Get to know your CSM…** ” > … but no new player is supposed to know you, after three or four months of seeing your face on billboards? > > > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > > > How would a newbie know about brisc? > > You must know that even after 4 or 5 months in EVE a player can still be considered a noob. But it seems that you apply the word “noob” only when it suits you. That was not two days ago but you prefer to bash people rather than read what they write and when you don’t like what they write you accuse them of being all sorts of things they are not. You people aren’t serious in here, you are biased a.f and more toxic than sh- It wil be some work blocking all you two-faced bozos but it will be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/450 "2023-05-19T08:14:18Z")
⏫ Wall of tears… ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/451 "2023-05-19T08:23:28Z")
@Aiko_Danuja Ignored for ever 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/452 "2023-05-19T08:28:10Z")
Don’t care. Your previous alts also said that, but here you are (again)! ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/453 "2023-05-19T08:47:54Z")
> [@Minin\_alnigh\_Lon](#): > > That would damage my self-esteem to lose a well fit nice ship because I had no idea what was going on round me You will lose plenty of ships, well-fitted or not. If you put your self-esteem into the mix I don’t give you 6 months. Plus, self-esteem has nothing to do in a game like EVE where all the risks is stacked against you for at least 5 years of your play, how good or how bad you do isn’t reflected on you but on how good the game is. > [@Minin\_alnigh\_Lon](#): > > We can already buy all the skill point a fat wallet can buy so the skill system doesn’t need to be touched That’s the same argument for getting rid of it and finding other, better ways to make players pay for participation. ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/454 "2023-05-19T09:21:58Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Geez, enough with the nit-picking… guess I’ll start calling them the 14 fundamental skills… Be careful with that word, _fundamental_ 😄 All the skills are intertwined, support and compliment each orher and directlyaffect all ships and module stats, there is no “magic” 14 or “main skills”, until a character has filled _all_ the skills in _all_ categories he is nothing but a half-baked clone, cannon fodder, sitting duck. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > All of those skills form the basis for fitting that will benefit every single ship a player can pilot in Eve, everything from a shuttle to a titan. If those skills were maxed out with Character Creation, new players would be on a fast track for getting established in Eve. With those skills max trained, it’s much easier to fit up ships and helps increase survivability. With survivability comes retention, with retention comes increased players, with increased players comes more money for CCP. 💯% ☝that ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/455 "2023-05-19T09:33:09Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > until a character has filled _all_ the skills in _all_ categories he is nothing but a half-baked clone, cannon fodder, sitting duck. I agree Nienna Nannie, Why bother with skills at all. If they want to mine give them level V in every mining skill. If they want to PvP just give them gun skills to V for every gun. If they want to fly titans just let them have Titan V. I would even go a step further. The ISK making is just in the way of them having fun. Just give them the ship they want to fly. If its a hulk just give it to them. If it’s an Ishtar for ratting just give it to them. If it’s a blingy Titan just let them have it so they can have fun. At that point players can have all the fun they want when they want. The flaw in your proposal Nienna Nannie is that the players still have to wait — which is not fun. Why bother waiting for gun training. It’s no fun. Why bother waiting for ship training. It’s no fun. Why wait for ISK to accumulate. It’s no fun. Newbies will be bored out of their mind. YAWN. And play a different game. This way all nonsense is eliminated. There’s is no mountain. They don’t have to look at a mountain and get scared at all. Want to be a big industrial player? Boom, wish granted! A titans pilot? Boom, wish granted. No mountain, no problem. No time wasted. They can work directly on what they want on the game without wasting time. Want ISK? Boom, wish granted! In fact we can spin up a separate server so these rotten people arguing against us can have their newbie unfriendly hell hole. The rest of us can play on our dedicated server for maximum fun. We can name it singularity. See you there! ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/456 "2023-05-19T09:34:27Z")
They could just give a “YOU WIN” screen on login. 🏆 No need for anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/457 "2023-05-19T09:45:01Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Why bother with skills at all. If they want to mine give them level V in every mining skill. If they want to PvP just give them gun skills to V for every gun. If they want to fly titans just let them have Titan V. Yes. Let the players buy whatever they want and do whatever they want with it. Isn’t EVE a game? Let the players _play_ it, no more Alpha, no more Omega silly business, no more waiting for a module, 20 bucks a month subscription plus all the PLEX money can buy. Let the Sandbox shine. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > I would even go a step further. The ISK making is just in the way of them having fun. Just give them the ship they want to fly. If its a hulk just give it to them. If it’s an Ishtar for ratting just give it to them. If it’s a blingy Titan just let them have it so they can have fun Don’t be ridiculous. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > At that point players can have all the fun they want when they want. The flaw in your proposal Nienna Nannie is that the players still have to wait — which is not fun. Why bother waiting for gun training. It’s no fun. Why bother waiting for ship training. It’s no fun. Why wait for ISK to accumulate. It’s no fun. Newbies will be bored out of their mind. YAWN. And play a different game Come on now. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > They can work directly on what they want on the game without wasting time Yes. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Want ISK? Boom, wish granted! No. That would destroy the market. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > In fact we can spin up a separate server so these rotten people arguing against us can have their newbie unfriendly hell hole I don’t think there are enough actual players for that but maybe in the future, when EVE becomes more popular. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > The rest of us can play on our dedicated server for maximum fun. We can name it singularity. That already exists. How about **EVEfUN** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/458 "2023-05-19T09:46:19Z")
The government should pay people to play EvE. Why should players have to buy a subscription? FREE PLAY AND INFINITE ISK FOR EVERYONE ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/459 "2023-05-19T09:51:15Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous. How is it ridiculous? Having all these skills does nothing alone. Giving everyone Titan V doesn’t give them a Titan to have fun in. All the fun is shooting other players, but if it is gated behind boring time-sinks like any of the boring PvE no one will play the game. Pretty much every single other modern MMO or instanced MMO-like game out there beats Eve Online when it comes to PvE. Plus market prices will spike as everyone wants to buy a Titan but only very few people can build one. And higher prices == more boring PvE time. Eve vets have all the money, not newbies, so this is a newbie-hating change if you don’t give them free handouts. Let newbies jump right into the fun and exciting PvP and socialization that comes with it. How can you be against jumping right into the fun? Are you secretly _for_ boring time-gated sinks? C’mon, nuke the skill queue, skill point and PvE ISK-making systems and just give out ships and free SP for everyone. Kill the player-driven market because it too is a way for vets to impose a time-gated sink upon poor newbies who don’t have tons of ISK to go right into the fun. Or do you hate newbie pilots and want them to get bored and quit the game doing boring time-gated-for-no-reason crap like accumulating skill points and “make ISK doing boring space job”? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/460 "2023-05-19T09:53:43Z")
EVE ONLINE: CREATIVE MODE New players don’t want a challenge, they want easy instant wins and infinite money. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/461 "2023-05-19T10:00:38Z")
Vote for me for CSM: “Sign Up Equals Catch Up”. The best way to make sure newbies feel impactful in the game on day 1 is to eliminate the concept of time from the game. Nothing to “catch up” on if everyone is exactly the same on Day 1 or Day 3650. Anyone who wants otherwise is just being a gatekeeper and wants to subject newbies to the horrifically grueling experience they themselves went through, whether it was waiting boringly for SP to accumulate or doing boring space jobs for space wages. Half a billion SP plus two Titans in every hangar. ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/462 "2023-05-19T10:01:26Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Or do you hate newbie pilots and want them to get bored and quit the game doing boring time-gated-for-no-reason crap like accumulating skill points and “make ISK doing boring space job”? > [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > > > I would even go a step further. The ISK making is just in the way of them having fun. Just give them the ship they want to fly. If its a hulk just give it to them. If it’s an Ishtar for ratting just give it to them. If it’s a blingy Titan just let them have it so they can have fun > > Don’t be ridiculous You are exaggerating in the other direction and you know well that is not what I am discussing. I have read your posts and I know you are reasonable enough to know that what I quoted above is ridiculous, and you know it. The Skill Queue is a problem for retention. Removing it will not break the game but will send a message to all players who know EVE: “We have stopped F-ing around with your precious time.” [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=24)