# So I made a new character. It was eye opening **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182 "2023-05-10T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/503 "2023-05-19T15:00:41Z")
Yes…I think my point was more that the equivalent T2 missiles have less range ( but greater DPS ) so one might as well train for the Meta turret first. On my noob is says the Arbalest training for the Caracal is 15 days whereas Heavy Missile Launcher II is one month and 5 days. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/504 "2023-05-19T15:15:51Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Folks, post what kept you in EvE when you started. Ironically…being ganked ! Quite the opposite of what a lot of people argue. It was being ganked that set me on a Wrath Of Khan ’ I’ll show you !’ path of vengeance that motivated me to stay in the game and skill up. It was the kick up the backside that I needed. Of course, 18 months later I’ve long since forgotten the gank of a ‘mere’ 4m ISK Condor…though the ‘I’ll show you !’ mentality is still there…and I think needs to be. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/505 "2023-05-19T15:18:47Z")
Or people learn how to cooperate in the game… Our newbros fly WH-content in Mallers and their job is to soak up aggro with their beefy and small hulls that we can easily keep alive with remote rep, while helping the fleet with RemoteTrackingComputers and TargetPainters. They learn the trigger mechanics, they learn which NPCs do what, learn the Ano/Sig names, they learn how to be aware of Dscan, New-Sig-Spawning, how to migitate incoming damage of bigger ships, how to broadcast for reps, they learn all the fleet-talk, how to do squadwarps, how remote-rep- and remote-cap-chains work. They learn how to roll WHs, how to quickly survey another system, how to update Pathfinder, how to manage bookmarks efficiently, how to create multiple safespots, how to create deepsaves, how to set up their overview, watchlist and UI efficiently… I could continue. All that in a T1 fitted Maller. So far no one has complained that he cannot fly a Sacrilege, they are way too busy to play the game and earn their fair share of the fleet’s rewards. If they participate they get the same money as everyone else, which is serveral hundred million ISK per OP. I see little reason to complain. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/506 "2023-05-19T15:32:23Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > I can get into a Battleships now, but to fit it properly will take me 2 months at least. What is this ‘properly’ ? On my very first mission for Absolute Order, a year ago, I went out in a mere Gnosis ( among Paladins and Ikitursas and Apocalypses ) and still managed to come pretty high up the kill stats, and got the final blow… > **[Astrahus | New Eden Logistics Service | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101398805/)** > > (New Eden Logistics Service) lost their Astrahus in Yoma (Lonetrek). Final Blow by Altara Zemara (Absolute Order IX) flying in a Gnosis. Total Value: 1,496,779,026.84 ISK ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/507 "2023-05-19T15:34:30Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Folks, post what kept you in EvE when you started. The EvE shakes got me hooked. When I started EvE, my friends and I were looking for a substitute for Shadowbane, which suffered from lag and many bugs. I loved the excitement of combat in EvE. The fact that it took a while for me to earn anything (particularly my first Rupture), combined with the knowledge that it could be destroyed made combat a thrill that I never totally lost. The EvE shakes are something that no other pvp oriented game ever delivered. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/508 "2023-05-19T16:05:20Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Well, tell you what: why don’t you put together a skill plan for a 5-day old player that wants to end up in a Caracal doing security missions and anomalies and maybe something more down the road. > > It can be T1, but please include all the armor, shield, engineering, navigation, targeting, rigging, missile, drone and any other skills you think would be needed for a decent, well-rounded T1 build. The only thing I recall being T2 in the build we recommended was a DCU II I make and give out fits (make because fits depends on use and situations, which can differ) all the time. The DCU being T2 is about the least important T2 module, if they’d need a T2 at all. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Or you could just grab a Caracal or a Gila on a new account and take a look at the Mastery 3 training times I guess On mastery system it’s really simple: it’s a guide at best but you have to be beware that it’s made by people who don’t really understand the game and it’s full or weirdo and illogical skill requirements. It’s to be used to get an idea, not to be actually followed. Apart from that the skills you need also depend on usage and other play style choices you might have as that might affect the importance of some of the skills. Tell that to a newbie, or anyone advocating newbies to follow it, and you’re good. It’s pretty much like Magic 14: look at it, learn from it but don’t blindly follow it. I have done “start with nothing challenges” quite often, generally if something changed in the NPE or to try out some new feature, none of those ever needed T2 modules early on, or at all. Here’s a Caracal lvl 2 mission fit that fits with starter fitting skills, requires VERY low skills and it’s cheap (on purpose). > [Caracal, Caracal Basic] > > Ballistic Control System I > Ballistic Control System I > Ballistic Control System I > Missile Guidance Enhancer I > > 10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner > Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender > Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender > Enduring Multispectrum Shield Hardener > Enduring Multispectrum Shield Hardener > > Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher > Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher > Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher > Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher > Experimental SV-2000 Rapid Light Missile Launcher > > Medium Core Defense Field Purger I > Medium Core Defense Field Purger I > Medium Core Defense Field Purger I > > Hornet I x2 > > Mjolnir Light Missile x3000 > Scourge Light Missile x5000 What do you need for this? - Preferably Cal Cruiser 3 but not that important as the Caracal is rate of fire based instead of damage based so increasing the skill doesn’t increase rapid launcher clip damage. lvl 2 is just fine for now - preferably get shield management and shield operation to lvl 3 - get light missiles to 3, bombardment&projection to 2, rapid launch to 2 - drone skills entirely optional for this ship and use There’s your lvl 2 mission caracal, takes nothing at all and works just fine. And once they have that they can get those skills to lvl 3 and once they have that then start focusing more on what they find important or enjoy: probably more missile skills but as said, they might just not enjoy the ship, missiles in general or the play style. There’s **no need** to push newbies into a direction, make them be able to _try_ that direction without going too deep in it and let them make up their own mind. > Caldari Frigate I > Caldari Frigate II > Caldari Frigate III > Caldari Destroyer I > Caldari Destroyer II > Caldari Destroyer III > Caldari Cruiser I > Caldari Cruiser II > Missile Launcher Operation II > Missile Launcher Operation III > Rapid Launch I > Rapid Launch II > Light Missiles I > Light Missiles II > Missile Projection I > Missile Bombardment I > Missile Projection II > Missile Bombardment II > Shield Management II > Shield Operation I > Shield Operation II > Shield Management III > Shield Operation III ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/509 "2023-05-19T16:09:00Z")
That kill doesnt count because your Gnosis was not on Mastery V. No way you had fun doing it, you cried all that evening about not being able to have a complete T2 fit. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/510 "2023-05-19T18:59:59Z")
I see the “all change is bad change” and “nobody can ever have an easier start than I did” crowds are busily constructing strawmen for them to argue against. The post you’re all arguing about wasn’t about me, or new players, or the minimum possible training time to get someone into a cruiser. It isn’t about what new players need, or the fact that you can get started with lower skills while you work towards higher skills. The guy in question literally asked for a **good solid cruiser skill plan** with good support skills - not a “getting started with cruisers” plan. He knew he would work towards it slowly, he was already doing so. He was already flying, fighting, and making ISK. I wasn’t giving him newbie advice or steering him in any direction - in fact I was trying to steer him _away_ from his long-term Gila focus and to things he could do shorter term. That doesn’t change what he asked for. I **specifically stated** in the post he wanted the whole plan with support skills - not the minimal trimmed-down “just enough to get rolling” plans people are linking here. As for Mastery plans, I don’t use them and I don’t recommend them. As Aisha said, they have a lot of useless junk and they miss a lot of useful stuff. However here’s what I use them for - a quick training time guesstimate. If you look at the Mastery plan, strip out the useless stuff, and add in the useful stuff, you’ll generally find that the training time you end up with will be about 85-90% of the “Mastery” level time. Mastery I - gives you the basics to undock with a basic fit, most skills to lvl 1 or 2. Mastery 2 - gives you a decent more reliable fit, with most skills to 1, 2 or 3. Mastery 3 - gives you the approx. training time to a good well rounded skill set with with most skills to 2, 3 or 4. and so on. The training times people are talking about here are equivalent to Mastery I, basic undock fits, without including anything like support skill training. (Which, again, was specifically mentioned in the post - but some folks clearly struggle with reading comprehension and retention issues.) I’ve started a new character to check the times as I’ve only gone from memory so far. Perhaps I remembered them incorrectly, but I’m pretty sure those were the rough training times. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/511 "2023-05-19T19:15:37Z")
You don’t need a T2 everything Gila, you just don’t. You could literally only have drones lvl 2 and medium drones lvl 1 and it would already out-dps many other folks who run missions or do combat sites. I don’t care if what he asked for is a near-max fit (if only without realising it), newbies ask lots of questions where the best answer is “you’re asking the wrong questions”. Also, it wasn’t aimed at you in particular, just in general. The reality is that most newbies get told garbage, whether that is “train magic 14”, “need a T2 DCU”, “no point unless you have T2 weapons”, “isk and grinding for omega is your main goal”, “you can’t do well as a newbie”, “alpha can’t make isk”, “just go mine”, “must join a null alliance” or any other low effort low IQ idiotic ■■■■■■■■. It’s all dumb and based on ignorance and stupidity of the one spewing that nonsense and there’s a lot of stupid people so newbies get bombarded with that ■■■■ very often. I’d say that is all far more detrimental than pretty much anything else that could discourage any newbie. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/512 "2023-05-19T19:54:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The guy in question literally asked for a **good solid cruiser skill plan** with good support skills - not a “getting started with cruisers” plan. He knew he would work towards it slowly, he was already doing so. He was already flying, fighting, and making ISK. Well I think you are gaslighting, as what was responded to was you quoting the guy as saying " Over a year for a good Gila fit ?"…which you then ‘corrected’ down to 6 months, which my examples above show is still absurdly above the _actual_ length of time which is more like _6 weeks_. That is to fly an Absolute Order doctrine T2 Gila…not just any old random Gila. That is actual training times based on a noob Omega account that I have. All a bit less than a year ! The main thing I have responded to is people’s _exaggeration_ of skills times based on opinion rather than actual fact. Some have exaggerated deliberately to try to make some spurious point. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/513 "2023-05-19T20:11:05Z")
asteroids ftw m ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/514 "2023-05-19T20:17:24Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > You seem a bit too attached to high priced things Especially my time. > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Folks, post what kept you in EvE when you started The art, the lore, shooting rats and discovering all that the game has to offer for my time and money. > [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > You aren’t here to argue about new players, remember That’s right. I’m not here to argue and get mad like some of the posters in this thread, I thought I was here giving my opinion based on what I experienced but I understand that my opinion isn’t very popular 😅 and that’s ok. I’m all for Democracy and the vote is clearly in favor of not talking about or mentioning [that thing that wastes our time] I am obliged to bend, cease and desist my posion in the face of the unrelenting masses before I get tarred and feathered. viva a democracia! ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/515 "2023-05-19T20:30:23Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > As for Mastery plans, I don’t use them and I don’t recommend them. As Aisha said, they have a lot of useless junk and they miss a lot of useful stuff. However here’s what I use them for - a quick training time guesstimate. Mastery is a terrible estimate. I’m well-skilled in the current ship I’m flying, don’t feel like I really need to train any more skills, maybe get spec 5 in one skill or another, yet when I look at mastery level 5 I would get an ‘estimate’ of 500 days. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/516 "2023-05-19T20:32:09Z")
Right. Now look at Mastery 3, which is the one that’s been repeatedly indicated here, and see what you get. I understand all you folks need to seriously twist the details around in order to get a ‘fact’ that suits your narrative, but please try to stick to the actual situation presented. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/517 "2023-05-19T20:33:30Z")
Mastery is a bad indication, it’s full of irrelevant skills. I’m flying this Loki with Artillery at the moment, but I would need to train Missiles to get my mastery up. Yes, I also sometimes fly Missiles, so training those isn’t a bad idea to get more well-rounded, but it’s not relevant at all for my artillery loki. Pretty sure it’s trying to make me train amour spec skills too. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/518 "2023-05-19T20:33:33Z")
No. Stop using mastery to defend anything, explain or guide anything at all. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/519 "2023-05-19T20:35:17Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Mastery is a bad indication, it’s full of irrelevant skills. You could quote your Mastery V time since it suited your (irrelevant) point to do so, but you can’t quite your Master III time? It’s just a couple clicks away. Let’s see it. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/520 "2023-05-19T20:36:27Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You could quote your Mastery V time since it suited your (irrelevant) point to do so, but you can’t quite your Master III time? It’s just a couple clicks away. Let’s see it. My character is 132m SP in subcap combat, I’m at mastery level 4 for this ship. Don’t see how it is relevant to your argument, though. My example is that mastery means very little and is misleading. My character doesn’t need it, and I don’t see why a newbie should be paying it any more attention than ‘inspiration of skills that could be useful’. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/521 "2023-05-19T20:36:35Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > asteroids ftw > > m asteroids? asteroids!!! That is some kind of hard-core, gate keeping, hierarchically structured, elitist game right there! You are too much for me Mike. I’m sticking to space invaders. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/522 "2023-05-19T20:37:19Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Don’t see how it is relevant to your argument, though. You said you’re comfortable with the skills as you have them in the ship. If Mastery 3 says “Yep you got the right skills for this ship, no additional training time needed”, then I guess it was a pretty good fit huh? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=27)