# So I made a new character. It was eye opening **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182 "2023-05-10T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/543 "2023-05-20T02:53:59Z")
I’ve never, ever, on any character, flown a Gila. I have a hard time believing anyone needs a Gila in order to enjoy the game. ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/544 "2023-05-20T07:39:35Z")
@Kezrai_Charzai Thank you for that insightful post. That is hands-down one of the best posts I read on a forum in a very long time. Although most of your posts are well thought-out and concise. Respect. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > New players who can put 2 and 2 together and get the correct answer, come fairly quickly to the conclusion that they’re far behind, they’ll always _be_ far behind, and they pass. Better games with better outlooks elsewhere I realized that within hours of starting to play EVE but it doesn’t bother me at all. I perfectly understand that there are people in this game who have been playing for centuries so it’s totally normal that they should have a definite lead over a newer player. But them pretending it isn’t an advantage is such cacamimi that pretty much anything they say afterwards feels self-serving and a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/545 "2023-05-20T08:05:34Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > it’s totally normal that they should have a definite lead over a newer player. But them pretending it isn’t an advantage is such cacamimi that pretty much anything they say afterwards feels self-serving and a lie. As I have tried to explain days ago, the advantage for seasoned players of having more SP is that they can engage in a **broader range** of activities and situations and with a broader choice of ingame “hardware”. It does not, and will never mean that they are better (more successful) than any other player, new or seasoned, in every single one of those activities and situations. Once a new player decides to start spending sp and (training) time on an activity or even a special hull, only **experience and how good a game player one is** could make a difference if new and seasoned pilots compete _for that activity / in that situation_. It’s hard, if not impossible, to see any self-serving factor there, let alone a lie. Want to have more access, more choices, more stuff ? Have to subscribe and play and accumulate. Choose well, enjoy and compete with anyone. P.S. which doesn’t mean that current elements like “attributes” of skills make a lot of sense, they just force more superfluous choices on us. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/546 "2023-05-20T08:07:22Z")
Why shouldn’t new players be able to jump right into any activity they want? Some new players want to do level 4 missions in perfect safety, or fly a mining Titan - they should be able to do this on day one, with no cost or risk, and it’s just NOT FAIR that other players want to put up roadblocks. WE MUST SAVE THE NEW PLAYERS!!! ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/547 "2023-05-20T08:08:06Z")
Because then we would be left with only the “nerf ganking” threads ---
**Author:** ![Hollie\_Swoons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hollie_swoons/32/368128_2.png) [@Hollie\_Swoons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hollie_Swoons)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/548 "2023-05-20T08:09:42Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > As I have tried to explain days ago, the advantage for seasoned players of having more SP is that they can engage in a **broader range** of activities and situations and with a broader choice of ingame “hardware”. It does not, and will never mean that they are better (more successful) than any other player, new or seasoned, in every single one of those activities and situations. Once a new player decides to start spending sp and (training) time on an activity or even a special hull, only **experience and how good a game player one is** could make a difference if new and seasoned pilots compete _for that activity / in that situation_. > > It’s hard, if not impossible, to see any self-serving factor there, let alone a lie. > > Want to have more access, more choices, more stuff ? Have to subscribe and play and accumulate. Choose well, enjoy and compete with anyone. > > P.S. which doesn’t mean that current elements like “attributes” of skills make a lot of sense, they just force more superfluous choices on us I disagree with your post. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/549 "2023-05-20T08:10:43Z")
And why ? It’s the same color as the other one. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/550 "2023-05-20T08:15:19Z")
You realize these are just sockpuppet alts, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/551 "2023-05-20T08:15:53Z")
yup, although the ESI is not cooperative 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nienna\_Nannie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nienna_nannie/32/373656_2.png) [@Nienna\_Nannie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nienna_Nannie)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/552 "2023-05-20T08:18:15Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > As I have tried to explain days ago, the advantage for seasoned players of having more SP is that they can engage in a **broader range** of activities and situations and with a broader choice of ingame “hardware”. It does not, and will never mean that they are better (more successful) than any other player, new or seasoned, in every single one of those activities and situations. Once a new player decides to start spending sp and (training) time on an activity or even a special hull, only **experience and how good a game player one is** could make a difference if new and seasoned pilots compete _for that activity / in that situation_ Why do you quote me and go on with this? You read my posts, you know damn well what I disagree on and I did read yours, there is no mystery, we disagree 100% like polar opposites. I have no desire to be sh- on by everybody today like yesterday so don’t try to start sh- because it won’t work with me today. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/553 "2023-05-20T08:20:08Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > I havo desire to be sh- on by everybody today like yesterday You don’t have to be here. 🚪 There’s the door! ---
**Author:** ![Hollie\_Swoons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hollie_swoons/32/368128_2.png) [@Hollie\_Swoons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hollie_Swoons)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/554 "2023-05-20T08:21:50Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > And why ? Because you and the other vets can’t see it objectively, you have conflicts of interests. ---
**Author:** ![Hollie\_Swoons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hollie_swoons/32/368128_2.png) [@Hollie\_Swoons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hollie_Swoons)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/555 "2023-05-20T08:24:23Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > People don’t generally realize it, but there’s a _lot_ of motivational psychology study in an industry where encouraging a player to drop a few more quarters or another month’s sub can add up to millions of dollars per year. > > I don’t get into this much because if you’re not already aware of it, people rarely believe it. But here’s the gist of it: people typically don’t know “why” they enjoy something, they just know this feels rewarding, that feels meh. This feels progressive, that feels like a drag. > > Some people will point out “those ‘grind to progress’ games don’t all last 20 years like EVE has”, but in fact there’s a lot more “grind to progress” games that have lasted longer than EVE, than there are EVE-style games at all. “Grind” is their loaded term, because it’s actually “take positive action to improve your relative standing” in motivational terms - a beneficial attribute. > > Turns out people are very good at calculating their “position of relative advantage” with regards to other people, and they maneuver to improve their relative standing at a practically subconscious level. > > Design-wise, EVE’s progression scheme is actually a Ponzi-style setup, where everyone who’s been in less time than you is lower on the ladder, and everyone who’s been in longer is higher (in general terms). > > This attracts a certain specific type of player who figures if they just keep paying and hanging in long enough, they’ll be “ahead of the pack” in some fashion. And it leads to exactly what you see on the EVE forums… an insane amount of “go away, EVE isn’t for you” responses in **a steadily declining game** , as well as outright rejection of _any_ method or change that would allow anyone else to “pull ahead” of their relative standing. > > It doesn’t even matter if the “gain SP” suggestion applies equally to everybody - if someone else might take more advantage of it than you, then it’s bad and must be rejected. > > New players who can put 2 and 2 together and get the correct answer, come fairly quickly to the conclusion that they’re far behind, they’ll always _be_ far behind, and they pass. Better games with better outlooks elsewhere. > > Sure, any new player can succeed if they put in about 3 times as much effort for half the reward as in other games, but only an extremely small niche of them stick around for that. > > All these vets pretending having 120 million more SP than new players “really doesn’t make a difference” and saying “Hey why should anyone new have it better than I did?” are basically just aging dinosaurs hoping to leech a little more advantage from their Ponzi scheme before it collapses I agree with this post entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/556 "2023-05-20T08:24:48Z")
> [@Hollie\_Swoons](#): > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > People don’t generally realize it, but there’s a _lot_ of motivational psychology study in an industry where encouraging a player to drop a few more quarters or another month’s sub can add up to millions of dollars per year. > > > > I don’t get into this much because if you’re not already aware of it, people rarely believe it. But here’s the gist of it: people typically don’t know “why” they enjoy something, they just know this feels rewarding, that feels meh. This feels progressive, that feels like a drag. > > > > Some people will point out “those ‘grind to progress’ games don’t all last 20 years like EVE has”, but in fact there’s a lot more “grind to progress” games that have lasted longer than EVE, than there are EVE-style games at all. “Grind” is their loaded term, because it’s actually “take positive action to improve your relative standing” in motivational terms - a beneficial attribute. > > > > Turns out people are very good at calculating their “position of relative advantage” with regards to other people, and they maneuver to improve their relative standing at a practically subconscious level. > > > > Design-wise, EVE’s progression scheme is actually a Ponzi-style setup, where everyone who’s been in less time than you is lower on the ladder, and everyone who’s been in longer is higher (in general terms). > > > > This attracts a certain specific type of player who figures if they just keep paying and hanging in long enough, they’ll be “ahead of the pack” in some fashion. And it leads to exactly what you see on the EVE forums… an insane amount of “go away, EVE isn’t for you” responses in **a steadily declining game** , as well as outright rejection of _any_ method or change that would allow anyone else to “pull ahead” of their relative standing. > > > > It doesn’t even matter if the “gain SP” suggestion applies equally to everybody - if someone else might take more advantage of it than you, then it’s bad and must be rejected. > > > > New players who can put 2 and 2 together and get the correct answer, come fairly quickly to the conclusion that they’re far behind, they’ll always _be_ far behind, and they pass. Better games with better outlooks elsewhere. > > > > Sure, any new player can succeed if they put in about 3 times as much effort for half the reward as in other games, but only an extremely small niche of them stick around for that. > > > > All these vets pretending having 120 million more SP than new players “really doesn’t make a difference” and saying “Hey why should anyone new have it better than I did?” are basically just aging dinosaurs hoping to leech a little more advantage from their Ponzi scheme before it collapses > > I agree with post entirely. I disagree with post entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/557 "2023-05-20T08:25:03Z")
The absence of ISD Dorrim already makes itself felt… ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/558 "2023-05-20T08:26:16Z")
I wonder how many sockpuppets this guy will make? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/559 "2023-05-20T08:27:09Z")
Some people just want to see the forums, and the game, burn. ---
**Author:** ![Hollie\_Swoons](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hollie_swoons/32/368128_2.png) [@Hollie\_Swoons](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hollie_Swoons)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/560 "2023-05-20T08:49:07Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Some people just want to see the forums, and the game, burn That would be kind of hard since they’re both on non-flammable medium. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/561 "2023-05-20T08:50:34Z")
> [@Nienna\_Nannie](#): > > I have no desire to be sh- on by everybody today like yesterday I doubt that. Yesterday you made a post [quoting 6 different people, disagreeing with them all](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/388). The only time I see people do that, it’s because they intentionally want to _‘be sh- on by everybody’_, because they’re trolls asking for attention. Which isn’t surprising, considering you made this character for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182/562 "2023-05-20T09:01:54Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > every single one of my 9 characters So which one are you? ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/e/c/cecb443aa6fa5510287af4e566e10896059512f5.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-i-made-a-new-character-it-was-eye-opening/405182.md?page=29)