# So whats the Deal with BattleShip WarpSpeeds? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** low-sec\ **Created:** [September 15, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777 "2017-09-15T15:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/22 "2017-09-15T19:38:59Z")
the size of the bonus isnt important whats important is the actual damage being done to the target mach certainly isnt lacking there and youre only comparing it to other pirate bses rather than all bses and subcaps in general if we do that the power creep becomes more apparent and why the meta is in bad shape because pirate bses eclipse the meta that doesnt mean i want pirate bses to be nerfed though i want everything else to be buffed relative to the current power level set by pirate bses ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/23 "2017-09-15T19:46:59Z")
Yes the mac does a lot of damage, but if you look at all the mac fits especially the high DPS ones, they are a lot less tanky than other BS in the same class, and don’t get some of the other combat bonuses like other pirate bs might such as web bonus, neuts, Tracking, resists, etc. So, yes, the mac is fast and has DPS, but it comes at a tradeoff, which is why you don’t see everyone using macs for everything. It is a useful tool, but it is not the best in all situations. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/24 "2017-09-15T20:01:47Z")
sure it doesnt have every available role bonus because its a pure combat ship it has speed and dps and while it might have less tank than other pirate bses it still has bs tank along with the fittings to accomodate between the mach and the rs pretty much all the pure combat ships are… i dont wanna say obsolete but its pretty close to it ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/25 "2017-09-15T20:15:54Z")
“Take a look at” does not mean “will change” it just means they’ll see if it needs a change. I’d say it’s pretty clear at this point that their answer was “no”. ---
**Author:** ![Shailagh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shailagh/32/13586_2.png) [@Shailagh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shailagh)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/26 "2017-09-15T20:59:44Z")
This is @ccp_rise (edit: wHY CANT I @ LINK CCP RISE?) From Feb. 2015 about the BS warpspeed changes and the discussions about them with csm recently back then… > **[Balance Changes Coming In Scylla | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla)** > > Howdy Ishtar lovers Although us balance-oriented folks have been very busy working on things like the NPE and Sov (!?), we took some time aside to put together a high-impact pass for Scylla (March 24) and I want to tell you about it! As always, we... This was the same balance patch as the ishtar nerf that took like 3 years to do. They say they are not going to adjust BS WarpSpeed at that time in Feb 2015 because they put some stupid graph with no labels that shows TOTAL OVERALL PVP DAMAGE DONE by ship class. NO ■■■■ BS HAVE MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE… THIS WAS OLD SOV. STRUCTURE BASHING SOV. POCO/POS BASHING DONE BY BSES… NO ■■■■ THEY HAD MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE LOL ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/e/ce7ab04134123669af153ae160a8a14dae8f7ab9.png) > [@](#): > > BATTLECRUISER AND BATTLESHIP VIABILITY > > Problem: Strong community sentiment that battleships and battlecruisers are not viable currently and that the biggest reason is warp speed changes. > > We took a fresh look at this issue to make sure we were on the same page as a game design department and this is how we approached it: we started by going over usage metrics and once again saw that clearly that both classes are getting heavy use and are being effective by any measure we have available. Have a look at this awesome graph of PVP damage by class: > > **STUPID MISLEADING GRAPH LINKED** **ABOVE HERE** > > Proposed change: None. We are pretty happy with the state of class variation right now and see no reason to make changes. Lol such imcopetance at analizing data and conclusions. [@CSM](https://forums.eveonline.com/groups/csm) you have mentioned BS speed MANY ADDITIONAL TIMES since middle of 2014/2015. Status update REQUIRED CSM!! ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/27 "2017-09-16T05:56:20Z")
they were crap when they warped 3.0 they are crappier now that is all i have to say on a subject avoiding semi intelligent arguments for argument sake. ---
**Author:** ![Tian\_Tian\_Tian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tian_tian_tian/32/12200_2.png) [@Tian\_Tian\_Tian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tian_Tian_Tian)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/28 "2017-09-16T12:27:41Z")
---
**Author:** ![Octoven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/octoven/32/403414_2.png) [@Octoven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Octoven)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/29 "2017-09-16T20:42:14Z")
Obviously this isn’t a solution, in a fleet engagement you probably arent going to sacrifice time for a couple of battleships that may or may not actually render aid or be of use to make a difference anyway. A FC isn’t going to give up response time just for that and will likely end up putting them in their own wing/squad or forcing them to warp themselves independent of the fleet to prevent the entire fleet from being slower. If you look at the overall pacing between the various classes of ships you have Frigs 5.0 Dessies 4.5 Cruisers 3.0 BCs 2.7 BSs 2.0 Battleships in this instance are not only half the speed of frigs they are literally less than half the speed of a frigate at warp. I understand you want a frigate to be able to cut off a battleship in warp and such, but this level of differential is grotesque at best. A more appropriate pacing would be 5 4.5 4 3.5 3 This would slightly increase cruisers, battle cruisers, and battleships speeds while still giving a destroyer and frigate the advantage. The whole reason they were changed in the first place was due to the warp acceleration curve which took into account acceleration and deceleration from warp speeds which make up about a 1/5 the time in warp. However, at the time if I remember correctly EVERYONE had the same rate of acceleration and deceleration which meant even though a frigate was 5 au/s and BS 2 au/s the difference was not really noticeable in shorter warp lanes such as less than 100 aus long. Honestly I think CCP over-exaggerated the AUs/s needed for a frigate to overtake a battleship in warp. Or even a cruiser. Even 4 au/s over 3 is still enough time for a HIC to land before a BS and tackle. In fact the cruiser to BS rate would remain the same 1 au apart. This would just close the overall gap in warp speed to allow a BS to not fall so far behind in the first place, I admit a BS should be slower and not fastest class in the fleet but 2.0 compared to 5.0 is just ridiculous, and thats just baselines, never mind an AF over a T1 BS which is probably more commonly flown together in a fleet than a Marauder/Blops with an AF. lol in that case it would be 5.5 over 2.0 ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/30 "2017-09-17T00:22:55Z")
Just revert the mobility changes and make battle cruisers and battleships warp and allign as fast as they used to be if not faster. Or give them way more firepower and HP if they’re gonna be slow like caps. They never should have been nerfed. Tbh they should all warp the same, a tiny frigate shouldn’t be able to get ahead of a thing with engines magnitudes bigger than the entire frigate in a vacuum. Everything warps at 5, interceptors and interdictors and such get 6.5-7.5 cause that’s their role. Caps and industrials should get like 3-4 minimum. Make shuttles 10 and have them be nullified so shuttles have a use, but shuttles get no cargo. Or make a t2 shuttle that’s nullified. ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/31 "2017-09-17T06:28:35Z")
> [@Shailagh](#): > > Literally the first couple of sentences after his introduction in the comentary video is how he is forced to use ALL 3 RIGS for HyperSpacial rigs IN ADDITION to then needing to use a Low slot for Fitting due to not being able to use a rig for fitting. And how that affects the dps/tank. > > Litteraly point proven thank you. > > I dont have an eloquaint foreign accent to make my point sound so knowledgeable and wise as he does. I believe that video was posted back when the drawback for hypers was still cpu penalty. Pretty sure you can do a similar fit without a fitting mod these days. would love to see a slight boost to BS warp speed, they should still be slow, but not as painfully slow as they are now. heck wouldn’t mind seeing the whole low end of the warp speed curve shifted up a bit. At least as far as subcaps go, I can’t say anything on cap balance. ---
**Author:** ![Shallanna\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shallanna_yassavi/32/449714_2.png) [@Shallanna\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shallanna_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 8:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/32 "2017-09-17T08:41:02Z")
That fit was before the cap booster 3200-enabled dual rep meta we have today. These days, a single LAAR wouldn’t do so well in that kind of a fight. It wasn’t so good in those days, either. Today’s favorite battleship builds would have performed a lot better in the kind of fight ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/33 "2017-09-17T09:13:59Z")
Did i already point out that this is just another Cam alt thread? ---
**Author:** ![ACESsiggy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/acessiggy/32/424308_2.png) [@ACESsiggy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ACESsiggy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/34 "2017-09-18T04:55:38Z")
The meta is kitey ships and we all know speed kills. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/35 "2017-09-18T08:46:05Z")
What is the problem here? BS are slow? No ■■■■. Thats part of the whole hull class cascade. If anything, its BCs that could use some small agility/warp buff to encourage more use of that class as pocket BS, especially for those who have taken time to go T2. Imo if there is one thing this game needs, its more BCs. ---
**Author:** ![Maraner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maraner/32/25240_2.png) [@Maraner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maraner)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/36 "2017-09-18T08:50:05Z")
Agree with the OP. BS and BC flew at 3.0 for over a decade then got nerfed. Perhaps the mother of all nerfs. I had no issue with them making the smaller ships warp faster… fine. But to make the ship classes distinctive they used the nerf bat liberally. Since then solo roaming BS have become a rare sight. Would like to see them returned to 3.0 Then there is a choice to use low slots, rigs or implants to fly faster. ---
**Author:** ![Shallanna\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shallanna_yassavi/32/449714_2.png) [@Shallanna\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shallanna_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/37 "2017-09-18T09:38:42Z")
Ferox says hi. The rest of them, not so much, unless you want something with a high engageability stat. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/38 "2017-09-18T10:22:19Z")
BS at 3AU is out of the question. Stabber is 3AU. ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/39 "2017-09-18T20:55:23Z")
> [@Maraner](#): > > I had no issue with them making the smaller ships warp faster… fine. But to make the ship classes distinctive they used the nerf bat liberally. You can’t really have base warp speed go all that much higher since you would run into some rather bad cases with implants. ---
**Author:** ![ExcalibursTemplar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/excaliburstemplar/32/383837_2.png) [@ExcalibursTemplar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ExcalibursTemplar)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/40 "2017-09-19T14:29:42Z")
This is an aircraft carrier. > **[HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Queen_Elizabeth_(R08))** > > 39 m (128 ft) (waterline) HMS Queen Elizabeth, named for current reigning monarch Queen Elizabeth II, is the lead ship of the Queen Elizabeth class of aircraft carriers, the largest warships ever built for the Royal Navy of the United Kingdom and capable of carrying up to 40 aircraft. The ship began sea trials in June 2017, and was commissioned on 7 December 2017. Her first Commanding Officer is Commodore Jerry Kyd, who had previously commanded the carriers HMS Ark Royal and HMS Illustrious. As C... This is a destroyer. > **[Type 45 destroyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_destroyer)** > > The Type 45 destroyer, also known as the D or Daring class, is an advanced class of six guided missile destroyers built for the United Kingdom's Royal Navy. The class is primarily designed for anti-aircraft and anti-missile warfare and is built around the PAAMS (Sea Viper) air-defence system utilizing the SAMPSON AESA and the S1850M long-range radars. The first three destroyers were assembled by BAE Systems Surface Fleet Solutions from partially prefabricated "blocks" built at different shipyards... This is a frigate > **[Type 26 frigate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_26_frigate)** > > The Type 26 frigate or City-class frigate is a class of frigate being built for the United Kingdom's Royal Navy. The ship design and manufacture program, known as the Global Combat Ship, was created by the UK Ministry of Defence to partially replace the navy's thirteen Type 23 frigates, and for export. It will be a multi-mission warship designed to support anti-submarine warfare, air defence and general purpose operations. The programme began in 1998, under what was then known as the Future Surfa... They all have similar speeds and ranges the acceleration and deceleration curves now that’s where the big difference comes from. That’s how navies design there ship as ships travel in fleets Also it makes absolutely no sense at all that a tiny ship in eve which has tiny engines can travel so fast. As the warp engines don’t propel you through space they warp space and time around the ship. A giant ship with giant engines should be able to warp space and time even more. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lady_ayeipsia/32/23528_2.png) [@Lady\_Ayeipsia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lady_Ayeipsia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/41 "2017-09-19T14:38:51Z")
But you are applying naval logic to space battles. It’s not the same concept. Naval ships cannot fight in 3 dimensions nor do naval ships have the chance to escape simply by warping away. The warp speed is a design concept to allow groups to catch targets. It’s not based on naval concepts like the examples you are giving. And if we are going simple by name… Isn’t an interceptor a type of jet which is leagues faster than any naval vessel. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777.md?page=3)