# So whats the Deal with BattleShip WarpSpeeds? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** low-sec\ **Created:** [September 15, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777 "2017-09-15T15:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/62 "2017-09-20T08:59:31Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > BS=3 AU > BC=3.3 AU and so on (0.3 AU) > > Warping speed is too slow for some hulls (BS) and too fast which make space feels small, like ceptors. Thats a 1AU buff to BS, but only a 0.6 AU buff to other hulls. Why that difference? ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/63 "2017-09-20T09:04:57Z")
Because BS are the slowest subcap. Now the modules and rigs would come to play because hulls wouldn’t have build-in fast warp speed. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/64 "2017-09-20T09:07:32Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Because BS are the slowest subcap. Now the modules and rigs would come to play because hulls wouldn’t have build-in fast warp speed. What about Machariel, for example? Travels at 4AU then? It would be travelling 0.4 AU faster than T1 cruisers then, rather than at same speed as now. Also BS can fit those same modules/rigs. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/65 "2017-09-20T09:10:58Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What about Machariel, for example? > > Travels at 4AU then? why on 4 AU, if they are traveling at 3 AU, same as crusier, then after the change they would travel 3,6 AU. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/66 "2017-09-20T09:15:18Z")
Why do you want to narrow the warp speed differential between ships? Shouldnt it remain constant? Furthermore if Mach travels at 3.6 after change, that is a -0.4AU differential to the full +1AU increase on other BS. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/67 "2017-09-20T09:24:07Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Why do you want to narrow the warp speed differential between ships? > > Shouldnt it remain constant? because in current state smaller ships are way to fast, even without warp modules and rigs. Warp speed and alignment are inseparable. Smaller hulls align faster and warp faster. It would be good to have slow align and slow warping BS if they have the power to justify it, but this is EvE nobody wants “bigger is better” and BS can be taken down by frigate. What do you mean by constant? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Furthermore if Mach travels at 3.6 after change, that is a -0.4AU differential to the full +1AU increase on other BS. It the same as today, Mach travels as fast as cruiser so after the change it would be the same. Point of +1AU increase is they won’t suddenly become uncatchable because they still align significantly slower than other hulls. ---
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/68 "2017-09-20T18:44:25Z")
> [@ExcalibursTemplar](#): > > Also it makes absolutely no sense at all that a tiny ship in eve which has tiny engines can travel so fast. As the warp engines don’t propel you through space they warp space and time around the ship. A giant ship with giant engines should be able to warp space and time even more. 200 years ago in 1817 a Frigate was a 5th rate ship by the Royal Navy, it had between 24-44guns on ONE gun deck and an average speed of 12kn under full sail in favorable winds. The French navy during the same time used light 5th rates which were classed as “Corvettes”. Which were nothing more than lighter gunned frigates. Instead of having 18-24lb guns they had 9-12lb guns. Thus being a bit more agile and weatherly. Fast forward 100 years to 1917. We were in the end of the first World War. We had dreadnought class of ships, which were lumbering gun platforms, battleships which were almost identical to dreadnoughts. Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, and Destroyers. Battleships and dreadnoughts were slow, lumbering powerful ships. But were vulnerable to fast attack ships like torpedo boats. Eve models its ship classes on the WWI standard. Which oddly enough is what most space games seem to use, even Star Trek and Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/69 "2017-09-20T19:22:58Z")
> [@LouHodo](#): > > Eve models its ship classes on the WWI standard. Which oddly enough is what most space games seem to use, even Star Trek and Star Wars. well i guess thats when naval warfare was at its peak in terms of strategy and technology after ww1 aircraft carriers made naval warfare irrelevant ---
**Author:** ![LouHodo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/louhodo/32/109593_2.png) [@LouHodo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LouHodo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/70 "2017-09-20T19:26:09Z")
Very true. I personally think we should just use the ship rating system of the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Cartheron\_Crust](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cartheron_crust/32/372053_2.png) [@Cartheron\_Crust](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cartheron_Crust)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/71 "2017-09-20T19:39:06Z")
“What is game balance?” ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/72 "2017-09-20T23:16:38Z")
> [@Shailagh](#): > > This is @ccp_rise (edit: wHY CANT I @ LINK CCP RISE?) From Feb. 2015 about the BS warpspeed changes and the discussions about them with csm recently back then… > > [https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/](https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/balance-changes-coming-in-scylla/) > > This was the same balance patch as the ishtar nerf that took like 3 years to do. > > They say they are not going to adjust BS WarpSpeed at that time in Feb 2015 because they put some stupid graph with no labels that shows TOTAL OVERALL PVP DAMAGE DONE by ship class. > > NO ■■■■ BS HAVE MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE… > > THIS WAS OLD SOV. > > STRUCTURE BASHING SOV. > > POCO/POS BASHING > > DONE BY BSES… > > NO ■■■■ THEY HAD MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE LOL > > STEVE\_7.png1103x665 11.3 KB > > BATTLECRUISER AND BATTLESHIP VIABILITY > > Problem: Strong community sentiment that battleships and battlecruisers are not viable currently and that the biggest reason is warp speed changes. > > We took a fresh look at this issue to make sure we were on the same page as a game design department and this is how we approached it: we started by going over usage metrics and once again saw that clearly that both classes are getting heavy use and are being effective by any measure we have available. Have a look at this awesome graph of PVP damage by class: > > STUPID MISLEADING GRAPH LINKED ABOVE HERE > > Proposed change: None. We are pretty happy with the state of class variation right now and see no reason to make changes. > > Lol such imcopetance at analizing data and conclusions. You seem to have taken what was said out of context and assumed that literally the only metric used was the damage graph. You’ve also rather erroneously assumed that A. nothing but Battleships was used in Structure Bashes, and B. structure damage made up some massively significant portion of Battleship damage done. If you look at the Dreadnought damage bar, a class that generally only shot Capitals and Structures, you’ll note that it’s significantly smaller than the Battleship damage graph which suggests that it’s not nearly as big of a chunk as you seem to think it is. If you look at the zKill stats for Battleships they’ve been pretty consistently high, but not amazing, among ship classes for like the last 10 years. Basically your argument here is essentially to insult CCP with no data to back it up and then assume that’s going to change anything… Somehow I don’t see this as a winning strategy. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/73 "2017-09-20T23:43:07Z")
> [@ExcalibursTemplar](#): > > Also it makes absolutely no sense at all that a tiny ship in eve which has tiny engines can travel so fast. As the warp engines don’t propel you through space they warp space and time around the ship. A giant ship with giant engines should be able to warp space and time even more. This isn’t how warp travel works in Eve. If you read through the lore the Eve warp-drives are something akin to a 5-dimensional lubricant. The more mass you’re trying to push past where physics normally goes “nope! F-no!” the harder that is to do and the slower the ship goes. The actual engines play a fairly minimal part in actual warp travel, they just provide the initial push and have zero impact on warp acceleration or velocity, that’s why there are different rigs and modules for sub-light velocities and warp speed. > [@LouHodo](#): > > Fast forward 100 years to 1917. We were in the end of the first World War. We had dreadnought class of ships, which were lumbering gun platforms, battleships which were almost identical to dreadnoughts. Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, and Destroyers. > > Battleships and dreadnoughts were slow, lumbering powerful ships. But were vulnerable to fast attack ships like torpedo boats. Strictly speaking Dreadnoughts at the turn of the 20th century were a type of Battleship, not a separate class. Dreadnought battleships were large, heavily armored, and had turreted guns as opposed to the sponson or barbette mounted guns on all Pre-Dreadnought Battleships. They also weren’t _that_ vulnerable to small ships in practice, because early Torpedoes had terrible range and both pre and post-Dreadnought battleships had so many smaller guns that a small boat or destroyer would have to be very lucky indeed to get close enough to launch a successful torpedo attack. > [@LouHodo](#): > > Eve models its ship classes on the WWI standard. Which oddly enough is what most space games seem to use, even Star Trek and Star Wars. Most games are really just borrowing the sizes though, not the roles or any of the capabilities. Most games go with what the ship classes sound like size-wise rather than anything actually historical, let alone basing their capabilities on anything historical. Partly that’s because there wasn’t actually much of a standard for these class names between nations, partly they’ve changed over time, partly because no one really cares, and partly because when you actually look into what the various ships were used for most of them wouldn’t be much fun to play as. Destroyers and/or Frigates in WW2, for example, were mostly used as pickets, to escort convoys, and for coastal defense. The only case I can find in all of WW2 where a Destroyer sunk a Battleship through Torpedoes was the Fuso at the Battle of Leyte Gulf and that was effectively an ambush, with _28_ Destroyers _and_ the Destroyers had 6 Battleships and 4 Heavy Cruisers that they were supporting which did the majority of the fighting after the initial torpedo volleys. Most of the things actual historical Destroyers and Cruisers did would have been done better by a Battleship (especially by WW2), but those larger ships were relatively rare and expensive. The exception to this pretty much being sub hunting, since the smaller ships were somewhat harder to torpedo and could more easily maneuver to deploy depth charges. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-battleship-warpspeeds/24777/74 "2017-12-19T23:43:15Z")
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