# So Where is the Game Mechanic That Allows us to Flip a key Null System to Hi-sec? :psyccp: **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847 "2020-08-21T15:57:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/22 "2020-08-21T18:34:55Z")
The carebear modus operandi is similar to an old military concept known as “peeling the onion.” They achieve their goals going through the “layers” of their issue. So let’s say their issue is that they don’t like that some high-sec space has been lost to an in-game PvE event (oh the _irony_). They would progress toward their goal, which is really more of a desire for revenge than anything else, like this (assume that between each entry, CCP actually implements their desires): 1. Choose a point of contention. In this case, it’s the argument of “if it happened to us, then it should happen to them too! It’s only fair!” 2. Null-sec invasions start happening, and contrary to the carebear assumptions, none of the players who own the space show up to help EDENCOM. The carebears would now say that it’s not fair because null-seccers are greater in numbers and more organized, so the NPC forces need to be made much stronger. “Give them titans!” they’ll say. “Make them one-shot the local citadels!” 3. No one shows up to oppose the null-sec powers anyway, despite getting a handicap boost from much stronger EDENCOM NPCs. Time for Plan C: “CCP, create additional, special NPCs that take the spots of players to give EDENCOM a chance!” 4. EDENCOM still loses. “CCP, make the Trigs who won in those systems camp every part of space 24/7 so that no one can travel or do anything!” 5. All of the null-sec players decide to get positive standings to the Trigs, because it’s not like they give a crap about some high-sec fortress systems anyway. “CCP, make it impossible for null-sec players to gain standings with the Trigs!” And on, and on, and on, until the system has been completely bastardized with dozens of changes to gameplay mechanics that they themselves didn’t have to put up with during the original iteration. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/23 "2020-08-21T18:36:21Z")
> [@Tak\_Goden](#): > > Seems a little one sided that a huge null sec organization can flip Niarja using game mechanics, while meanwhile there is no way for a group to go and flip one of their key null system to CONCORD occupied hi-sec. If you have the power to hold a sov null system(s) then you don’t need CONCORD. It is effectively safe to farm. The fact that you are weak and powerless doesn’t change no matter where you fly. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/24 "2020-08-21T18:47:56Z")
> [@Mark\_O\_Helm](#): > > The agenda to eliminate highsec and force every player to low or nullsec is going on for years now and i don’t think, it’s going to stop soon. No one is being forced. No one. Plus, this is actually the “equalize PvP and PvE” agenda … … which has been going on for longer than this. ---
**Author:** ![Tak\_Goden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tak_goden/32/260085_2.png) [@Tak\_Goden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tak_Goden)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/25 "2020-08-21T19:07:06Z")
my thought was though that CONCORD in one of their key systems wouldn’t then allow them to defend their territory without considerable (guaranteed) losses, CONCORD would sort of work to make it less safer for them. Interesting point though! ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/26 "2020-08-21T20:45:29Z")
There is no “us and them”, high sec is the kiddie pool for the real game. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/27 "2020-08-21T21:51:18Z")
They should make a holding alliance for Niarja, and then everyone can pay to be blue to them and you can cross through. Otherwise you are shot on sight. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/28 "2020-08-22T19:00:35Z")
Hey looky! Another thread the _cool kid clique_ has descended upon and **trashed**! ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/29 "2020-08-23T02:29:04Z")
Lots of badasses in this thread. Yeah take that! Our fake space ships are in a whole different part of fake space than your fake space ships! And we hit buttons that send different colored pixels towards different fake space things but our space things are cooler! You all realize we are all nerds right? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/30 "2020-08-23T02:31:48Z")
Sure, but if bragging about fake space ships is bad, what does that say about the people who **complain** about them? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/31 "2020-08-23T02:54:44Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > Our fake space ships are in a whole different part of fake space than your fake space ships! And we hit buttons that send different colored pixels towards different fake space things but our space things are cooler! You all realize we are all nerds right? And the candidate for the most useless comment in a thread goes to… this guy! Go ahead and throw this comment out into every thread! - AFK cloaky camping got you down? It’s fine, we’re all nerds! - Having trouble getting through a gatecamp? Whoa there, buddy, don’t you know we’re all nerds! - Proposing a shallow and poorly thought out idea and getting criticized for it? Let’s not do that, because we’re all nerds!! Haha! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/32 "2020-08-23T03:02:36Z")
I didn’t even think it was worthy of a response, but you did a good job. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/33 "2020-08-23T06:14:44Z")
I like you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/34 "2020-08-23T10:32:04Z")
So he wants a switch that allows him to make easy afk billions under CONCORD protection? ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/35 "2020-08-23T10:37:32Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > So he wants a switch that allows him to make easy afk billions under CONCORD protection supercap umbrella? FTFY. 💁‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/36 "2020-08-23T10:39:02Z")
Hu? Why? He wants to turn null systems into highsec. No need for an umbrella when you have CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/37 "2020-08-23T10:52:41Z")
Well, the umbrella kills before a kill happens, whereas CONCORD only kills after the kill. Thus the umbrella is better. When nullbears quitted en masse after The Blackout it was not over the chance of losing their ship without retaliation -but about the chance of losing their ship/drones without a warning, as usually happens to miners in highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/38 "2020-08-23T11:01:19Z")
I don’t know where you got this from. CONCORD doesn’t kill _after_ the kill. The CONCORD timer starts counting as soon as the first aggression is made. This is no different to the supercap umbrella. When whatever “protection force” not fast enough, the ganker wins. CONCORD has the upside that it’s reliable, while people aren’t. That doesn’t mean that they’re guaranteed to save anyone, but they’re still reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/39 "2020-08-23T12:20:20Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > whereas CONCORD only kills after the kill. That is not correct. Concord kills when you break the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Alias\_Kova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alias_kova/32/196568_2.png) [@Alias\_Kova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alias_Kova)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/40 "2020-09-02T08:32:53Z")
Things are simple. CCP wana remove all high-sec systems. So there is no way to recover. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847/41 "2020-09-02T09:13:27Z")
If CCP removed HS Wont that make NS Sov HS? For the krabs ofc [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/so-where-is-the-game-mechanic-that-allows-us-to-flip-a-key-null-system-to-hi-sec/261847.md?page=3)