# Solution to suicide gankers? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** hauling, high-sec\ **Created:** [May 24, 2022, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932 "2022-05-24T02:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mohammad_mediouni_sh_rifi/32/301858_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mohammad_Mediouni_Sh_rifi)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/281 "2022-05-27T14:31:45Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > Because the value of isk is worth less than compared to a adrenaline spike to the player That’s good, right? ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/282 "2022-05-27T14:32:01Z")
Why are you talking about me there, i am not complaining i lost a ship, can you start debating my arguments and stop attacking me for once, that would be nice ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/283 "2022-05-27T14:33:22Z")
Because you are by proxy arguing on their behalf. that makes you them for the purposes of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/284 "2022-05-27T14:33:39Z")
We have debated your arguments. You claim Highsec ganking affects player retention. There is no evidence to support your claim. An argument could just as easily be made that ganking improves player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/285 "2022-05-27T14:34:01Z")
No, i am a player concerned by the state of the game and i believe getting rid of ganking (or at least limiting it) would be good for the game, high sec ganking must i add ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/286 "2022-05-27T14:35:56Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > There is no evidence to support your claim. An argument could just as easily be made that ganking improves player retention. Ah so no evidence for me but all for you. I suppose i do not need to answer this one since you have all the answers ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/287 "2022-05-27T14:37:29Z")
An i am a player concerned by the state of the game and believe that what you are arguing for would fundamentally destroy it. Ive set out at length why i hold that view. Ive discussed diversity of ship fitting (which you ignored). Ive discussed impacts to the economy (which you ignored). I have discussed why i dont think you are characterising the problem correctly (which you ignored). At this point you are just repeating the same tired and false arguments over and over and not responding to any of the points raised. ---
**Author:** ![Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sitting_bull_lakota/32/438272_2.png) [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sitting_Bull_Lakota)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/288 "2022-05-27T14:38:33Z")
It really couldn’t work, though. Too much of the game’s economy depends on ships being vulnerable everywhere. There would be no value to hauling and a depressingly high increase in botting if not for the vulnerabilities (read uoward market pressure) of suicide ganking on the realm of highsec pve and industry. Since most new players start in highsec doing highsec things, their value from activity would be paltry to the point of abject poverty. Veld would be functionally worthless without a multiaccount farm of bonused hulks. Missioning lp would be worthless but for multiboxxed max dps marauders. It would be a nightmare for new player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/289 "2022-05-27T14:39:25Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > Ive discussed diversity of ship fitting (which you ignored). Ive discussed impacts to the economy (which you ignored). I have discussed why i dont think you are characterising the problem correctly (which you ignored). Hum, no you did not. You gave your opinion and i gave mine. That is what debating is, you know. Burrying me under pseudo facts and claiming my points are irrelevant dont make yours better. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/290 "2022-05-27T14:40:03Z")
> [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](#): > > my points are irrelevant You don’t have any points. You have a claim, but no evidence to support your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/291 "2022-05-27T14:40:24Z")
I never said the game wouldnt need some rebalancing. Maybe a overhaul of faction warfare or something, the game need destruction i never said otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/292 "2022-05-27T14:40:31Z")
ok cool ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/293 "2022-05-27T14:40:46Z")
Ok give me your counter opinion on ship diversity. Counter opinion on the economy. Explain to me why I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/294 "2022-05-27T14:41:08Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I can see how players that just go out and get blown up in a venture or Atron or whatever and would get a feel for the game and be more comfortable with the concept of loss as a result. > > Whereas a player who has through either by effort or luck existed in game with no PVP for 2 or 3 months may have a different reaction. Such a player will get comfortable in their own skin……get used to the isk facet…… start bringing ships…… and then boom. And when the boom happens so much entitlement has built up and the ship is expensive ……That’s when the tantrum happens. > > If your first loss is blinged out Raven or whatever then yeah you are gonna be pissed. That assumes the blinged out raven is all the person has. But I doubt that’s how most people operate. Most people will accumulate a collection of smaller ships leading up to anything expensive. I have half a dozen Condors, as many Slashers, Algos, Vexor, Caracal, Moa, etc. My most expensive ship is 200m ISK…but it is far from being all I have. It would be silly to put all one’s ISK into one blinged out ship. ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/295 "2022-05-27T14:41:26Z")
Counter opinions on what. You are just saying words without saying what you mean ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/296 "2022-05-27T14:42:06Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/5/4/654fbd596df8db91c2e4e55726f2fe832b9aa3be.png) [![X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/b/d/2bd6ea4829269b7eaa5da98eac9170365baa7c62.png)](https://zkillboard.com/item/4025/) [Altesse Tsukaya](https://zkillboard.com/character/2112723601/) I see you were trying to save that ship I understand the loyalty you hold and respect that more than you know. But I found it rather naive to suggest that a player would not already aggree to losing everything the moment they undock in a game such as Eve Online. If something like that is not fun then the risk vs reward needs to be thought about more clearly for that _person_. > Might be for a certain category of person. But not for the majority. Losing the stuff that you worked for is not a fun experience for almost everyone, unless its planed of course (such as ganking) ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/297 "2022-05-27T14:43:05Z")
Well this for starters. > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > And the opposite is also true. For every autopiloter that gets ganked there is one that gets through. It all comes down to having a meaningful choice. You can chose to autopilot or not. You can chose whether to fit for max yield or dps………Or maybe fit more defensively just in case. You can choose to scout gates or take the risk. You can chose to explore a wh connection to allow you to bypass a gate camped bottleneck or take the risk. You can chose to live in quiet space or right in gankerville? It’s all choice. > > If you take away ganking then what are we left with? None of the above choices matter. Or even really exist. > > Why would any miner in high sec have to make a decision between filling low slots with mining upgrades and fitting a damage control? Because resists no longer matter as there is no risk. Belt rats barely scratch the paint. So the fits will all be max yield. You would be silly to fit anything other than 3 mining upgrades in your lows. Result??? The game becomes less diverse. More ore is mined and less ore is destroyed. Ore prices take a hit. And suddenly we can mine in perfect safety but we make hardly anything because the market gets saturated. Maybe??? Certainly possible. > > For haulers there is also zero risk. There is zero threats to those ships. You could haul billions between Amarr and Jita and autopilot and be guaranteed to get there. This would have massive economic implications especially since autopiloting in safety means a second account could be focussed on mining or ratting and making even more isk while the billions are being moved. No choice………just market saturation ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/298 "2022-05-27T14:43:16Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > But I found it rather naive to suggest that a player would not already aggree to losing everything the moment they undock in a game such as Eve Online You never done mining or industry? You never pay those ships in one go. You cannot assume that they are going to die every time you undock that is silly ---
**Author:** ![Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altesse_tsukaya/32/318147_2.png) [@Altesse\_Tsukaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altesse_Tsukaya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/299 "2022-05-27T14:43:48Z")
Yeah text dump great, give me the points not a text wall ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932/300 "2022-05-27T14:44:00Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > That assumes the blinged out raven is all the person has. Do i need to go and find the thread? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/solution-to-suicide-gankers/363932.md?page=16)