# Sovereignty = No Structures in High-Sec **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [February 7, 2025, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193 "2025-02-07T15:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/21 "2025-02-09T06:57:10Z")
Remove asset safety… everywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/22 "2025-02-09T11:23:42Z")
Yes. It works in WHs for years, even on the largest alliance levels and even while evacuating large quantities of materials is pretty hard there. Nobody _needs_ AssetSafety to play this game. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/23 "2025-02-09T12:42:05Z")
I was on an extended hiatus when it was introduced. Do you remember the reasons why? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/24 "2025-02-09T12:42:15Z")
On one hand I am in favour of removing asset safety everywhere. It makes structures more worth fighting over, rewards good logistics and doesn’t magically teleport items around. On the other I think the existence of asset safety makes it more likely for players to return to the game. Real life happens, it’s a shame to come back to the game only to see all your capital ships and supercaps are all gone. It is true that the lack of asset safety works in wormhole space, but that doesn’t mean it would work in the rest of the game too without issues. After all, blackout also works in wormhole space but we know what happened when that was applied to the rest of the game. Not everyone is cut out for the increased risk that comes with it and the people who do can choose to play in wormhole space. Regardless of whether we keep asset safety or not, there’s one thing about asset safety that I think should be removed: the ability for players to drop loot in hostile structures in hostile space and asset safety it to a safe NPC station. That doesn’t need a change to asset safety though (even though asset safety is being abused that way), it requires a different change: depositing items to structures you don’t have docking rights should be restricted to wrapped items only. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/25 "2025-02-09T12:43:00Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > I was on an extended hiatus when it was introduced. Do you remember the reasons why? I’m pretty sure asset safety was introduced when players became able to build their own structures. After all assets have always been safe within NPC stations. Not always accessible I think (when others took over the NPC station), but safe nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/26 "2025-02-09T12:44:36Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’m pretty sure asset safety was introduced when players became able to build their own structures. I was around when structures were originally introduced - there wasn’t any asset safety present at the outset. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/27 "2025-02-09T12:56:08Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > eal life happens, it’s a shame to come back to the game only to see all your capital ships and supercaps are all gone. Why doesn’t real life happen to WH players? I might be on vacation for just over a weekend and find our hole sieged by a group I can never beat, seeing everything be burned down that I have worked for in the last year(s). So what? It was my obligation (in the past) to make sure to keep the hangars clean, bring out profits and products. Not crying for a magic teleporter _when already under attack_. People can manage Capfleets and huge stockpiles of Ores, Gases, PI mats and Industry Products in WHs, even _without_ an Alliance-Cynofreighterfleet, Ansiblex Network and fixed Stargates. It’s a _mindset_ thing, not a game mechanical one. _Everyone_ can learn how to prepare for an evacuation and yes, if you go on vacation you either make sure other people can do the evac (yes, TRUST them to give them your Caps/Supers so they can move them out for you if you can’t log in), or log out your most valuable stuff BEFORE you go offline for a longer period. And serious, if you got hit by a truck and spend a year in the hospital, you probably have other problems to worry about than some pixel spaceships. People storing and stockpiling assets endlessly and then being surprised they can’t move away 45 Million m³ of Mats, 4 Supers and 22 Dreads on their own conveniently if their station is reinforced is a _problem_, not a feature. This kind of stockpiling should neither be possible nor tolerated by any alliance nor rewarded by ingame safety mechanisms. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > should be removed: the ability for players to drop loot in hostile structures in hostile space and asset safety it to a safe NPC station. Thats absolutely true. If you don’t have access to a structure, you don’t have access. Period. Also the structure should automatically give you some care with it’s guns if you show up there and have no rights to be there. Just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2025, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/28 "2025-02-09T12:57:53Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Thats absolutely true. If you don’t have access to a structure, you don’t have access. Period. Also the structure should automatically give you some care with it’s guns if you show up there and have no rights to be there. Just sayin’… I think this falls under the “if you give them an inch - they’ll take a mile” category. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/29 "2025-02-10T05:24:39Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > On the other I think the existence of asset safety makes it more likely for players to return to the game. Real life happens Except in the current system it’s only the players on extended brakes that are at risk of losing everything. If you left and the group you were with just abandoned the structure it loses asset safety. So it’s still best practice to move you’re stuff out before you go on long breaks. This is a weak argument in favor of keeping asset safety. Asset safety only exists to protect the interests of the large null blocks ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/30 "2025-02-10T05:28:24Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > there wasn’t any asset safety present at the outset. By the time they made it to tq asset safety was already in place. It was even more expansive than it is now as it stayed in place even for unfueled structures. The original argument was that market structures would never be set up if you had full loot. Before even seeing if this was actually true asset safety was added. Original planned for all areas of space. But at the last minut wh groups convinced ccp to not add it to j-space ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 5:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/31 "2025-02-10T05:53:58Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > The original argument was that market structures would never be set up if you had full loot. That was not the argument… The argument was no upwell would ever be used if there was no asset safety like NPC stations and Outposts. Especially when certain ppl learned CCP intended to get rid of permanent stations in NS. That was the argument for asset safety. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/32 "2025-02-10T07:58:55Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Except in the current system it’s only the players on extended brakes that are at risk of losing everything. If you left and the group you were with just abandoned the structure it loses asset safety. So it’s still best practice to move you’re stuff out before you go on long breaks. This is a weak argument in favor of keeping asset safety. So it’s a ‘weak argument’ that asset safety helps players return to the game, because some structure owners let their structures go abandoned? Why would you put stuff in a structure that could go abandoned? I don’t. A good structure owner would never let their own structures go abandoned. My own alliance wouldn’t do that, they would rather pull the structure to send everything to asset safety than let their members lose items, because it’s in their own interest too to keep returning members come back to the game. Only in the case of malicious or incompetent structure owners could your items go abandoned, but then it’s a chain of bad events where both you and the structure owner made mistakes. Again: - asset safety makes it much more likely for players to have items to return to - if players have items to return to they are more likely to return to the game - players returning to the game is good This means asset safety has at least one good effect on the game. A few people losing assets to a chain of misfortune doesn’t change that the majority of players who still have their assets still have a much better reason to return than if they didn’t have those items anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/33 "2025-02-10T09:05:11Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > On the other I think the existence of asset safety makes it more likely for players to return to the game. Real life happens, it’s a shame to come back to the game only to see all your capital ships and supercaps are all gone. this. I was forced offline for an extended period due to a horrific 'sparks shooting out the ass of my graphics card" incident back when graphics card prices went absolutely haywire. When I could finally log back in, I had a bunch of stuff in asset safety. I try and keep assets in my wormholes to a minimum and tend to log off piloting my caps Just In Case™. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/34 "2025-02-11T08:12:09Z")
There were only a handful of people who tried to argue this and they were shot down pretty fast. Plenty of people put their assets into pos before structures and they were always full drop ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/35 "2025-02-11T09:04:05Z")
At least under the old system you could “trap” you’re enemies assets if you took control of an NPC station. Now everything gets bubble-wrapped and hand-delivered… ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/36 "2025-02-11T12:40:51Z")
Thats exactly the point. The defenders knew they had to fight if they didn’t want to lose access to all that was stored on the outpost. Or even lose members that would turn to the enemy to keep access to their stuff. Or at least do a large-scale evacuation op, maybe even under enemy pressure (fun, content, loot, destruction… everything the game needs). Attackers knew they could trap a lot of enemy war assets, weakening them in a longer conflict. Or intercept evacuation procedures. Or benefiting from later firesales when people tried to get rid of trapped assets. I understand that CCP wanted to prevent ppl creating more and more “indestructable” outposts that could never be removed, but the easiest way would have been to limit these to one per constellation and remove industrial abilities from them. Limit their anchoring to a special star type maybe and randomly give each single constellation one of these. So the Outpost could serve as local HQ for the Sov Holder and storage point for the local members. And for running Industry they would need to fill the surrounding systems with Upwell Citadels. No Asset Safety needed and a good concept for both defending and attacking an area. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/37 "2025-02-11T13:55:24Z")
Do you have any idea how quickly salted earth would be carried out if there was a one per constellation indescribable outpost mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/38 "2025-02-11T14:58:53Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > The defenders knew they had to fight if they didn’t want to lose access to all that was stored on the outpost. Or even lose members that would turn to the enemy to keep access to their stuff. Or at least do a large-scale evacuation op, maybe even under enemy pressure (fun, content, loot, destruction… everything the game needs). > > Attackers knew they could trap a lot of enemy war assets, weakening them in a longer conflict. Or intercept evacuation procedures. Or benefiting from later firesales when people tried to get rid of trapped assets. Now you can just plastic wrap everything to asset safety. It really strikes me as odd that you’re able to hide these 10km+ multi-billion ISK assets in deep space. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/39 "2025-02-11T15:33:28Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/8/6/7868660c8eaab624c1d0d59ed8e6581142ad264b.png) > **[I feel safe in Citadel city | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/i-feel-safe-in-citadel-city)** > > Hello again people and welcome back to yet another structure blog by Team Game of Drones. We’ve previously talked about the general protection and capture mechanics, now let’s discuss what happens to your stuff when things blow up, otherwise known as... Like i said that was argument for asset safety, the CSM argued for it, Nullsec argued for it, and many other players questioned why use Citadels in places that had NPC stations. IT was not a handful of people, you really need to cease with stupid case arguments that you can not back up with certification. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193/40 "2025-02-11T15:36:30Z")
Many players still question the utilization of Citadels (even with asset safety). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sovereignty-no-structures-in-high-sec/476193.md?page=3)