# SP selling: Good monetization or bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357 "2022-08-21T15:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/318 "2022-08-27T08:33:11Z")
If thats your reading of it, I dunno what to tell you. You and the main offender are two people who chose to disagree with him, and so are part of the derailing. The fact of the matter is he made one solid point that was a pretty obvious (and Id have thought) indisputable fact and that person spent a day telling him black was white. Im not sure what you think you are going to acheive by doing… _this_, because its not going to convince me either. Im not Lucas’ number one fan, not by a long shot and he’ll confirm, but his point was made in good faith, is true and he wasnt even the first to open the adhominen can so vOv. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/319 "2022-08-27T08:42:04Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > You and the main offender are two people who chose to disagree with him, and so are part of the derailing. I never argued against the definition of pay to win. Nor did I defend that other person that was. I was arguing against the idea that skill points inherently means you are doing better in the game and that it can be boiled down to a simple yes/no. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Im not sure what you think you are going to acheive by doing… _this_, because its not going to convince me either. I’m not sure what you mean by “this” however my point is we’ve just got past this whole definition of PTW and got the thread back on track, let’s not start up again as no one but that one person disagreed with it and that whole tangent ceased being relevant pages ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/320 "2022-08-27T08:47:25Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I was arguing against the idea that skill points inherently means you are doing better in the game and that it can be boiled down to a simple yes/no. Thats part of the question those two were debating, so to leap in with it on one side of the argument means you were involved. Im not sure how you dont see that but there we are. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “this” I mean by you restarting it by arguing with me about it. If you think its over, dont start it again. If someone else is to blame in your eyes (me) then dont engage if you dont want an argument. Seems easy enough to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/321 "2022-08-27T08:51:15Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If you think its over, dont start it again. Kind of what I was saying to you when you dredged it up by saying he was right. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Thats part of the question those two were debating, so to leap in with it on one side of the argument means you were involved. Im not sure how you dont see that but there we are. I was answering a specific question pertinent to the thread to bring the thread back into the discussion of Skill Points. It’s not rocket science… ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/322 "2022-08-27T08:55:20Z")
Aaanyway, back to the discussion of SP. I think they are a positive addition the the game store as long as they are kept limited. I would actually like to see more ways to earn skill points in game though. Such as rare drops form elite rats or something. The slow accumulation of skill points is by far the most frustrating part of the game for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/323 "2022-08-27T08:55:47Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Kind of what I was saying to you when you dredged it up by saying he was right. I added my support for Kell’s point, and you replied, so get the timing right first. So two wrongs make a right? Im allowed to express my discomfort at 9 hrs of someone saying black is white if I choose. If you wish to continue it be my guest but you are the one choosing to argue it with me. Im not forcing you. So dont blame me for an argument you are choosing to have. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I was answering a specific question pertinent to the thread to bring the thread back into the discussion of Skill Points. You were using it to attempt to undermine Lucas position while he was engaged in defending the self-evident point that selling SP is one of several P2W features in EvE. If you were trying to pull the thread “on topic” then perhaps one that genuinely _was_ on topic (the GOOD OR BAD of SP sales not their validity as proof of P2W) then a seperate post not directed into the fight would be what youd have done. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/324 "2022-08-27T09:02:30Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > You were using it to attempt to undermine Lucas I’m sorry are you trying to tell me want my intent was? > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If you were trying to pull the thread “on topic” then perhaps one that genuinely _was_ on topic (the GOOD OR BAD of SP sales not their validity as proof of P2W) then a seperate post not directed into the fight would be what youd have done. You mean exactly what I did by singling out a specific question and addressing it in a separate post to bring the relevance back… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/325 "2022-08-27T09:08:30Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I’m sorry are you trying to tell me want my intent was? No Im telling you what the obvious outcome was. You really are just looking for an argument this morning, arent you? Hows that for guessing your intent. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > You mean exactly what I did by singling out a specific question and addressing it in a separate post to bring the relevance back… The fact you quoted someone immeadiately undermines that position. The person quoted would automatically be alerted and assume it as a response. If you dont want me to guess your intent, can you tell me why you have chosen to argue with me in regards to my assertation that Kell is correct, right down to semantics about posting methods? As this entire exchange is wildly off topic. I dont care if it is but you seem to believe you have some duty to put it back on topic and Id like to inform you that you are failing badly in that duty. ---
**Author:** ![Kahna\_Sung](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kahna_sung/32/332492_2.png) [@Kahna\_Sung](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kahna_Sung)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/326 "2022-08-27T09:13:04Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I think they are a positive addition the the game store as long as they are kept limited We can already get 1mil sp for free when we link to a friend’s account. What would be a comfortable limit as far as sp for sale? I think 10mil sp would be a good mark. Although I don’t see why we’d need a limit. We can buy as much PLEX as we want so one could argue that unlimited PLEX could buy unlimited sp. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/327 "2022-08-27T09:24:52Z")
Thank goodness someone not picking a fight. It’s a tough question but I think the limit should be no more than it takes to finish a couple of skills. That’s often the difference between you being able to get into a doctrine and fly with your buddies or not. More than that can be grinded out in game anyhow as long as there are enough injectors on the market. ---
**Author:** ![Kahna\_Sung](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kahna_sung/32/332492_2.png) [@Kahna\_Sung](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kahna_Sung)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/328 "2022-08-27T09:49:12Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > It’s a tough question but I think the limit should be no more than it takes to finish a couple of skills. That’s often the difference between you being able to get into a doctrine and fly with your buddies or not Alright. But some skills take 17min to complete and others can take up to 19 days. So “a couple of skills” is very vague. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Thank goodness someone not picking a fight. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/329 "2022-08-27T09:51:29Z")
I guess I’d go with medium ships/medium guns to fall somewhere in the middle? ---
**Author:** ![Kahna\_Sung](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kahna_sung/32/332492_2.png) [@Kahna\_Sung](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kahna_Sung)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/330 "2022-08-27T09:56:45Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > I guess I’d go with medium ships/medium guns to fall somewhere in the middle? I like that, a happy median. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/332 "2022-08-27T10:40:24Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’d much rather see them come up with some in-game mechanic to speed up SP gains that more purchase options. The ability to buy packs only really helps people with spare cash, and SP extraction/injection disproportionately benefits older players with hundreds on millions of SP (most of which is now unused anyway). It should really be something that can be awarded for any activity if the secondary goal would be to drive up in-game activity I agree with you. With the caveat that some of those sales are helping to keep the lights on. There is more insentive to buy something by tangible in game than there is to buy a cosmetic. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/334 "2022-08-27T11:32:30Z")
I agree but I think more is made of CCP alienating their player base than is fair. When eve came out it was the best thing going for someone looking at a space sim. However we know there were people who didn’t really enjoy everything EVE was because they used to ask for EVE offline! Those people would have left when X3 came out. Similarly there will have been people that were better suited to space engineers and no man’s sky and so on. There is a lot out there now and we were naturally going to lose some people along the way. Once upon a time everyone played MOO2 because that is all we had. I think there is a natural level of attrition in games and selling skill packs might easily balance that by making getting started in eve a little easier to access. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/336 "2022-08-27T11:48:12Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Aaanyway, back to the discussion of SP. I think they are a positive addition the the game store as long as they are kept limited. > > I would actually like to see more ways to earn skill points in game though. Such as rare drops form elite rats or something. > > The slow accumulation of skill points is by far the most frustrating part of the game for me. Agreed. It would also be nice if there was a way to limit SP sales to newer accounts. Like, only claimable on characters under 10 million SP or something. That said, if a player was to buy every instant-SP package on the list, they’d be dropping $265 to acquire 3.9 million SP and 7.5 months worth of Omega. All as one-time purchases. That seems reasonable in the context of the game. Especially since IMO almost nobody would drop the $40 for the 1.5M SP boost - it’s just too expensive. Also agreed that the slow accumulation of SP when there’s something specific you want to get to is pretty frustrating. I’ve stated in the past that this in effect makes EVE’s business model “P2W - Pay to Wait”. And I’ve personally known of cases where people basically paid their sub, set up their training queue, and then went to play other games for 2-3 months while the SP ticked away. As for earning SP in game, I think that would be wise for CCP to do to encourage more active play at this point. I’d prefer not to see them as “drops” because that could easily lead to farming. But something like the AIR Career program, or the original Opportunities program - where you have a tree of activities/events to achieve and you would earn SP from completing items on the list. So long as direct SP isn’t repeat-buyable and isn’t priced lower than injectors, I don’t see it causing significant problems for the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/337 "2022-08-27T11:48:13Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > ink it’s also important to note that many gamers don’t play one game, so playing X3 isn’t necessarily going to stop you playing EVE. For a fairly long time I played EVE, Elite and FF14 for example, alongside countless single players games. They all filled different bits of leisure time depending on what mood I was in. Oh yeah agree. What I mean is that there were people who were playing eve because it was the best of what was there for them but not necessarily the game they wanted to be playing because it hadn’t been created yet. That’s true even now, I think what we need right now is a re-skin of cookie clicker where you orbit the suspiciously chocolate chippy asteroid in different ships from venture up to rorqual as you progress. Then all the players who complain about ganking can go play that and watch their numbers get bigger and we can focus on making EVE right for people that are playing the right game for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/338 "2022-08-27T11:51:49Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Also agreed that the slow accumulation of SP when there’s something specific you want to get to is pretty frustrating. I’ve stated in the past that this in effect makes EVE’s business model “P2W - Pay to Wait”. And I’ve personally known of cases where people basically paid their sub, set up their training queue, and then went to play other games for 2-3 months while the SP ticked away. That’s exactly me, two times now I quit eve after setting long skill queues and simply forgot about the game because I got sucked into something else. Thankfully I’m now at the point where I have enough SP to sustain a pvp habit. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/339 "2022-08-27T12:38:16Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Lucas has largely been derailing the discussion with an argument about the definition of pay to win that only one person has actually disagreed with. The argument was never about his ‘definition’. It was about _his self-contradictory use of it_. The manner in which he agreed that pay to win does not guarantee ‘winning’…yet he insists that it gives an ‘advantage’. 400 posts of semantic hair splitting. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/341 "2022-08-27T13:46:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ramona normally hates me. 🤣 Now now, I dont hate you. We arent pals, but my grandad said “never hate anyone you dont wish dead” and we never fell out _that_ much lol Besides, Im making an effort to like any post that makes sense and is more thought out than mine are. Which means Im nearly out of likes. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357.md?page=14)