# SP selling: Good monetization or bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 21, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357 "2022-08-21T15:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/87 "2022-08-22T11:39:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > When games lean into P2W the focus of developers move away from creating a game that is in itself entertaining and move to focus on ways to produce more income through microtransactions I don’t see how microtransactions/p2w are a hindrance to creativity. Game companies have different teams working on different aspects of the game. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The problem is that for a large number of people that previously played EVE, the quality isn’t good enough Looks to me that the only ones who complain don’t even play the game so I don’t see why they complain about “quality”. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most content is available to new players to some degree or another and within 6 months Not true. And even if were, 6 months is too long to keep a large portion of players out there interested while they grind waiting to actually play the game. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/88 "2022-08-22T11:42:05Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Then clearly, selling Plex which you can trade for ISK, or MCT, or alt accounts etc. is P2W. Paying cash for ISK is a pretty solid advantage. Those are _all_ sold advantages. That’s the point. > > Either EVE is pretty much wall-to-wall P2W and always has been Yes, it always has been. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > What I’m saying is that selling SP is a **useful and practical adaptation** to the state of EVE as it is, to the modern gaming market, and to CCP’s business needs. It provides useful benefits to new players and old that are inline with things EVE has always done. Fine I can agree with that. All I am saying is that selling SP is P2W type of monetization. Whether P2W can be good type of monetization is a question, probably not, but as a player I don’t care about selling anything, it doesn’t bother me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/90 "2022-08-22T11:57:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They aren’t inherently, and yet in nearly every instance of a game going P2W quality of the core experience suffers as microtransactions come into play Oh so it’s anecdotal. It’s not necessarily going to happen with EVE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Certainly not the “only” but sure, plenty of veterans who played the game and supported the developers for more than a decade are unhappy with the decline in quality of the game and have every right to voice their views, even if some random new player migrating from Fortnite disagrees Never played Fortnite and if you don’t play a game you have no business on its forum. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Absolutely true. Amusingly though you’re supporting my other statement here I’m not into forum PvP, we will agree at some point. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re saying that the quality of the game is so trash that people can’t be kept entertained for 6 months as they play through the core progression part of the game No need for a game to be trash to get bored if content isn’t accessible for 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/91 "2022-08-22T12:05:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > plenty of veterans who played the game and supported the developers for more than a decade are unhappy with the decline in quality of the game It sounds like EVE just isn’t the game for them. Maybe they should try Fortnite where the combat lasts more than a few seconds. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > have every right to voice their views You mean voice their rants that ISDs lock up. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > even if some random new player migrating from Fortnite disagrees At least this new player from Fortnite didn’t tell new players to go play MyLittlePony then left crying because CCP _went back on their word_, as if CCP works for the players instead of working for their financiers. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/93 "2022-08-22T12:10:18Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > No need for a game to be trash to get bored if content isn’t accessible for 6 months. The only content there is, is in those first 6 months before you “win” the game. 😃 After that you are just grinding what you know for ISK/hour so you can play next month for “free” and do it again or so you are able to do something else like PvP as this game isn’t build around instant satisfaction and to do something you like you usually need to do something else you might dislike like jumping X gates (and avoiding gankers/gate camps). ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/94 "2022-08-22T12:13:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Well no, at this point it’s a fact, the quality has declined since they implemented more P2W mechanics I disagree. I started not long ago and big improvements have already been made. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And sure, you may have never played Fortnite but you’re clearly the same generation of gamer based on your view that the game is basically unplayabvle unless you can immediately skip to what you deem to be end-game content Never talked about _end game content_, it’s a sanbox, there is no endgame. My generation is here to tell how much your generation suck and we’ve just begun to do so. I hope you like it so far. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I was just pointing out the inconsistency of you statin that the quality is fine but then claiming the game is too boring to play unless you can skip most of it Right, so you didn’t understand what I wrote. It happens… ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/96 "2022-08-22T12:14:57Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > After that you are just grinding what you know for ISK/hour so you can play next month for “free” and do it again or so you are able to do something else like PvP as this game isn’t build around instant satisfaction and to do something you like you usually need to do something else you might dislike like jumping X gates (and avoiding gankers/gate camps). Not everyone plays ghe game like you. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/97 "2022-08-22T12:15:55Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > Not everyone plays ghe game like you. Indeed, too many are playing the game just like I wrote… ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/98 "2022-08-22T12:16:02Z")
The sp that are for sale are a tiny drop in the water. It’s enough to get you into that hull you wanted or speed up getting T2 guns on something for that new doctrine. It’s not a game breaking amount and will never be because after all, people also by skill extractors from ccp. For those that say injecting skills ruins the point of the game by allowing you to fly expensive ships before you’ve learnt to fly. I say “oh no, you will get expensive ships on your kill board…” people have always been able to make up for lack of skill with bling, and they most often wind up feeding it. This was the case long before SP went on sale. I personally find the wait to skill into ships the most frustrating and annoying part of the game. It almost behooves you to pay not to play at the beginning while you are waiting for all the skills to cook. When I came back to the game, after leaving because of that frustration, and there were skilling bonuses and injectors you could save up for, I was very happy. Even still I find myself frustrated waiting because I move to a new corp with a doctrine I haven’t trained for and I have to sit fleets out or come in tackle. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/99 "2022-08-22T12:16:51Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Direct SP sales bypass plex Well, covered this point in the OP. SP sales aren’t the player market, it’s _CCP’s_ market that they cut the players in on. Plus, you’re making suppositions here that aren’t valid. > [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > This also reduces the demand on injector’s which increases their price Since when does reduced demand increase price? Reduced demand = more competition to sell = reduced price. > [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > That is a 56% price increase this year alone. That has a lot more to do with the increase in Sub/Plex prices and the decrease in paying players than anything SP-sales related. ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/101 "2022-08-22T12:20:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s weird that you think a company has absolutely no obligations to its customers They don’t. They have obligations to their stock holders. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Companies absolutely work for their customers, since if they do whatever they want and ignore everything their customers want they normally don’t last long as a company. And you know, they are literally paid by their customers. Keep telling yourself that 😄 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Since PA bought CCP it pretty much ceased being a company that develops a game and just became a method for PA to extract cash out of people like you who have no concept of value for money and think they are doing you a favour. People like me - oh you mean all those veterans who paid CCP all those years and are now crying? ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/102 "2022-08-22T12:22:41Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Indeed, too many are playing the game just like I wrote… Why _too many_ ? Aren’t they free to play as they wish to in a sanbox game? ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/103 "2022-08-22T12:24:11Z")
Lol. What a turn. Nice inconsistency there. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/105 "2022-08-22T12:28:51Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Lol. What a turn. Nice inconsistency there So players aren’t allowed to play as they wish? And thank you, btw ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/106 "2022-08-22T12:30:30Z")
> [@Ursula\_Anders](#): > > That’s why I’m not against CCP selling SP or ships in bundles. And aslo, because they’re a business. There is a slight difference though. Selling SP is CCP’s market, that they cut players in on. Selling Ships and Gear directly is the _player’s_ market, advertised and marketed as a core feature of the game since day one. That Retriever pack also had some touches of the “bad deal” and “exploitative” negatives, since it wasn’t priced well, it was a crappy fit, and it was a gank target. All around that pack was a stinker. As it happens, CCP _has_ sold ships in packs before. Here’s a shot of my “redeem rewards” page from, oh, around 8 or 10 years ago: ![EVE_Redeem_Items_Ships_SkillBooks](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/7/a/e7af24198696cab71442eb88f3308917dfcc04fd.png) Some stuff has been cashed in, there were minerals and other items as well as more ships and modules. These were also once-per-account career-based “Starter” packs that were an awesome deal, probably one of the best deals CCP has ever offered. In fact I used to ■■■■■ at CCP because they _didn’t_ advertise these packs to new players, but hid them away on a hard-to-find web page. They were the obvious best bridge from the 14-day trial into a paid sub and well worth the price. Apparently in this case CCP new better than I how players would react to CCP selling direct. Something I also don’t have a problem with _to some extent_ but it would have to be very carefully managed. It’s one of those “slippery slope” things that can easily get out of hand and may not be worth the player reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/107 "2022-08-22T12:31:52Z")
I think it’s pointless to protest. PCU peaked at 35k at the start of this year. This weekend, the PCU was 23k. **That’s a whopping 50% fall in player numbers.** GG ---
**Author:** ![Maxine\_Macks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxine_macks/32/330024_2.png) [@Maxine\_Macks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxine_Macks)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/108 "2022-08-22T12:35:00Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not reality though. Stock holders are very real, believe me. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Where exactly is the crying? Here: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most veterans just left and occasionally come on here to mock the people still paying for it If they were content with leaving the game they wouldn’t feel the need to come on the forum and mock anyone or anything. Sounds like they come to cry 😢 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > almost purely out of habit That’s sad. They should either stay or quit. This in-between isn’t healthy. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I like how you think This thread isn’t about me so while I appreciate your admiration, I’d rather we stick to our subject matter. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/109 "2022-08-22T12:38:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > beyond that Plex hasn’t always existed So your character is old enough to remember the “Game Time Codes” that were traded before Plex, but apparently you weren’t aware of them. As Destiny Corrupted pointed out in another post, at it’s height the Gamecode trading portion of the EVE forums was bigger than all the other forum sections combined. As said, it’s pretty much always been there and always been P2W. You also messed up the timeline in one of your earlier posts when you said > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > CCP only needs the income from SP because they’ve given up trying to actually make the core product a decent game. CCP only started SP sales in 2019 iirc, or thereabouts. They gave up on developing the core product a good 6 years or more before that. I agree that the focus _should_ be on making a better game. But until CCP is awakened from their zombie slumber and forced to actually produce quality or die, we have to make do with whatever will keep the game alive until PA forces a management change. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Since PA bought CCP it pretty much ceased being a company that develops a game and just became a method for PA to extract cash This is another mistake in your timeline. PA has said, CCP has confirmed, and Rattati recently re-confirmed in a video interview with Oz that **PA has exerted no control or influence over CCP’s game development**. I suspect the only influence PA had was in setting their “performance goals” in the buyout for the extra $200 million. Apparently CCP failed all those goals and so PA got CCP for almost half price. Nothing CCP has done since the PA buyout is noticeably different from what CCP did before the buyout. It’s been about less about game quality and more about monetization and whales since roughly 2010 or 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Ursula\_Anders](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ursula_anders/32/331878_2.png) [@Ursula\_Anders](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ursula_Anders)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/111 "2022-08-22T12:49:14Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Selling Ships and Gear directly is the _player’s_ market, advertised and marketed as a core feature of the game since day one. I understand there’s a line to not cross on something that is core to the game, like players’ market, but I only back that because it’s beneficial to players. As long as an idea or implementation benefit players I’m all for it. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > As it happens, CCP _has_ sold ships in packs before. Here’s a shot of my “redeem rewards” page from, oh, around 8 or 10 years ago Thanks for the pics. Those ships were sold in packs? They’re nothing exciting though and not very expensive on the market. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > In fact I used to ■■■■■ at CCP because they _didn’t_ advertise these packs to new players, but hid them away on a hard-to-find web page. They were the obvious best bridge from the 14-day trial into a paid sub and well worth the price SMH. That doesn’t make sense. Wonder what goes through their thinking processes sometimes. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Something I also don’t have a problem with _to some extent_ but it would have to be very carefully managed. It’s one of those “slippery slope” things that can easily get out of hand and may not be worth the player reaction Its always a gamble but I disagree to holding CCP hostage through loss of sub for doing what companies must do to keep afloat. I know I did balk at the $60mil per year but how much of that is left after everything? ---
**Author:** ![thirstme](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thirstme/32/334512_2.png) [@thirstme](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/thirstme)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357/112 "2022-08-22T12:54:40Z")
they’re not skills, they’re skill points. i have access to things i don’t even know what they do in eve. if i choose to use them it doesn’t mean ill be good at it and someone with actual “skills” will beat me every time no matter how many “points” they or i have [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sp-selling-good-monetization-or-bad/374357.md?page=6)