# State of EVE? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 22, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901 "2019-03-22T18:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/121 "2019-03-26T08:46:41Z")
I suggest you ask the question to @Bladewise as his answer is to use a JF. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/122 "2019-03-26T08:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > You ran away from that point pretty quickly! And I see that you changed what you wrote I’ll take your lack of a rebuttle as a sign that you do not have one > [@](#): > > So everyone in this game should not do any contracts that are larger than a JF. So that is the end counter. OK, so people do not use freighters, just JF’s. OK done end result of the escalation or the end point. Nope everyone should avoid going through Uedama and Niarja in a freighter without a web alt. If there is gank fleet that has a suicide scram just use a jump freighter and if they absolutely HAVE to use a freighter and there is a gank fleet that has a suicide scram find a HS to HS WH or bring a friend or another alt to suicide ECM the suicide scram. > [@](#): > > Is that your point of view. I’ll take your lack of a rebuttle as a sign that you do not have one > [@](#): > > That was a comment on your suggestion that the game was made easier to avoid when in fact the point was making was that interceptors had their warp speed buffed and made it easier to catch people. I highlighted a salty part of your reply, why are you even suggesting that I never said that? Because stating that the buff to inty’s made it easier to catch people was a way for you to avoid responding to my solution for travelling through gatecamps. > [@](#): > > So what this has proved is that a freighter is not a properly balanced ship because you cannot use it as there is no counter. Thank you for getting to the point that I think is super important. Nope everyone should avoid going through Uedama and Niarja in a freighter without a web alt. If there is gank fleet that has a suicide scram just use a jump freighter and if they absolutely HAVE to use a freighter and there is a gank fleet that has a suicide scram find a HS to HS WH or bring a friend or another alt to suicide ECM the suicide scram. > [@](#): > > Never said that, and it was effort. And you mean like what happened with hyper dunking in terms of one catalyst being able to gank a freighter, well one character using huge numbers of catalysts. Right and that was nerfed so if one cat cant gank a freighter then one thrasher cant cant a freighter wreck. > [@](#): > > I know people who blow up JF’s you are so defeatist. I know people who haul with JF’s for a living, take the proper precations, and never take losses. > [@](#): > > Yeah right. So all those people that I knew who no longer play due to that are a figment of my imagination. If you say so, the acid test was that CCP actually changed the ships to give a choice in terms of tank and why did they do that? You can bluster around that all you like but CCP’s actions speak louder than your words. So you can’t be bothered to interact with other players but you knew a catastrophic amount of players in high-sec? > [@](#): > > Well I was lucky one spawned in time. But that was the last time I did a courier contract actually. So I am laughing because your content has now gone, good job! It is the other option to logging out which is don’t do it. So suicide ganking should be nerfed because you were inconvenienced once and didn’t even get ganked? Yea… that entitlement thing again. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/123 "2019-03-26T08:54:17Z")
Just face it man, you’re a snowflake. I’ve proven there is counterplay to literally every obstacle you’ve presented and it’s still not enough for you. So in lieu of bringing this “song that never ends” to a close. What would you have CCP nerf about ganking that would allow you to not be inconvenienced and not completely remove it from the game? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/124 "2019-03-26T09:00:47Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > I’ll take your lack of a rebuttle as a sign that you do not have one Like changing what you wrote when you realised that talking about player vs player was also an end point in terms of this. If you are going to throw that this is a multi player game at someone make sure that the content that is being discussed is actually multi-player and not multi-boxing… > [@Bladewise](#): > > Nope everyone should avoid going through Uedama and Niarja in a freighter without a web alt. If there is gank fleet that has a suicide scram just use a jump freighter and if they absolutely HAVE to use a freighter and there is a gank fleet that has a suicide scram find a HS to HS WH or bring a friend or another alt to suicide ECM the suicide scram. Does not cover everything as I detailed above. You have failed to offer effective counters to the situation I have detailed. > [@Bladewise](#): > > I’ll take your lack of a rebuttle as a sign that you do not have one I don’t have an opinion on something you suggested I said, except that you are an idiot for making the point in the first place. You are telling me that I don’t interact with other players, which is crazy talk. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Because stating that the buff to inty’s made it easier to catch people was a way for you to avoid responding to my solution for travelling through gatecamps. Cargo was the issue there. You did not respond to that, though I could say BR’s depending on size of course and whether it was nullsec or WH space where bubbles are an issue. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Nope everyone should avoid going through Uedama and Niarja in a freighter without a web alt. If there is gank fleet that has a suicide scram just use a jump freighter and if they absolutely HAVE to use a freighter and there is a gank fleet that has a suicide scram find a HS to HS WH or bring a friend or another alt to suicide ECM the suicide scram. So someone has to create an alt to move a freighter in hisec, train them up to gank a blackbird and have them only able to do that due to security sec. I can do that, but not everyone is me. Still the issue is that he will just jump straight back into another blackbird while I am logging in my freighter, what do I do then? > [@Bladewise](#): > > Right and that was nerfed so if one cat cant gank a freighter then one thrasher cant cant a freighter wreck. It was a classic case of whining for a change because you could not counter it. > [@Bladewise](#): > > I know people who haul with JF’s for a living, take the proper precations, and never take losses. So do I and I never lost a JF either. > [@Bladewise](#): > > So you can’t be bothered to interact with other players but you knew a catastrophic amount of players in high-sec? Answer the question on why CCP buffed those ships in the way they did and stop trying to put words in my mouth. Why did CCP buff those ships in the way they did if it was not an issue? > [@Bladewise](#): > > So suicide ganking should be nerfed because you were inconvenienced once and didn’t even get ganked? Yea… that entitlement thing again. Bumping is too powerful, it enables easy lazy play and people like you think you are entitled to easy ganking play. That is my point of view. You will say and do anything to defend your easy ISK making and all of your posting above indicates that. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Just face it man, you’re a snowflake. I’ve proven there is counterplay to literally every obstacle you’ve presented and it’s still not enough for you. Here we go with the insults, you said that people must use a JF, thus invalidating a ship class and the ability to move stuff that is too big for a JF. You have declared victory by chanting JF at me. 🙄 > [@Bladewise](#): > > So in lieu of bringing this “song that never ends” to a close. What would you have CCP nerf about ganking that would allow you to not be inconvenienced and not completely remove it from the game? I want bumping sorted and then I think it will be in a good place. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/125 "2019-03-26T09:01:33Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > I’ve proven there is counterplay to literally every obstacle you’ve presented Your suggestions are primarily centered around avoidance. And, if the counter to EVE gameplay is avoiding playing EVE, then what you are, in fact, suggesting is that players quit the game. ^ CCP, this is what was holding you back. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/126 "2019-03-26T09:15:00Z")
Nerfing bumping makes ganking freighters cease to exists as it would no longer be profitable because the gankers would have to sit on the gate and wait for targets meaning they would all have to use tags to fix their sec status which would cost enough money to put them out of business. Entitlement. Also If the long list I gave you just wasn’t enough then you could simply wait for the fleet to gank and all show red flashy in local and then take the gate. Problem solved! Ganking is balanced! ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/127 "2019-03-26T09:17:12Z")
I’ve given options that do not require you to quit the game or even log off for literally every problem presented. You’re just lazy, admit it. You don’t want to have to put in the work or the forethought to be prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/128 "2019-03-26T09:17:56Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > Nerfing bumping makes ganking freighters cease to exists as it would no longer be profitable because the gankers would have to sit on the gate and wait for targets meaning they would all have to use tags to fix their sec status which would cost enough money to put them out of business. Entitlement. Oh my god, did you just say that. That is so weak. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Also If the long list I gave you just wasn’t enough then you could simply wait for the fleet to gank and all show red flashy in local and then take the gate. Problem solved! Ganking is balanced! And this, what about the bumper. The reason I am suggesting removing bumping is to enable exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/129 "2019-03-26T09:21:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh my god, did you just say that. That is so weak. It’s the truth, but you already knew that as can be seen by the fact that you have no rebuttal. Or maybe you didn’t know that and you don’t know enough about how CODE. works to actually present any valuable insight. > [@](#): > > And this, what about the bumper. The reason I am suggesting removing bumping is to enable exactly this. You just web yourself into warp same as before, they cant suicide scram you for 15 minutes afterall. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/130 "2019-03-26T09:23:36Z")
Anyhoo I’m going to bed, good talk. Hopefully you guys learned a few things 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/131 "2019-03-26T09:28:05Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > It’s the truth, but you already knew that as can be seen by the fact that you have no rebuttal. Or maybe you didn’t know that and you don’t know enough about how CODE. works to actually present any valuable insight. Let me repeat it again for you: > [@Bladewise](#): > > Nerfing bumping makes ganking freighters cease to exists as it would no longer be profitable because the gankers would have to sit on the gate and wait for targets meaning they would all have to use tags to fix their sec status which would cost enough money to put them out of business. Entitlement. That is the definition of entitlement. Those tags are not exactly expensive, currently you can gank anything with a cargo of 1bn and above and make ISK, and you are telling that this is an issue? As I said it is a weak argument. The issue is that you will have to be on the ball and active with the gank fleet, it will make multi-boxing a little bit harder, it will end up making ganking require more team work which I think is a good thing in a multi player game. The player in his freighter can play gate games which is the only option he has, and the fac police is something that causes the gankers to have to keep moving. It becomes more fun and has a counter for the ship class. And easy rebuttal to what you just said. > [@Bladewise](#): > > You just web yourself into warp same as before, they cant suicide scram you for 15 minutes afterall. 🙂 Multiple accounts make that easy. I need to have three accounts then…, ah so people say I can’t do this unless I have three accounts, a ganker to blow up the blackbird, a webber and the freighter pilot. Game of alts indeed. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Anyhoo I’m going to bed, good talk. Hopefully you guys learned a few things 😉 You did not teach me anything, but you proved that you are an entitled ganker. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/132 "2019-03-26T09:43:02Z")
So basically you have an issue that there is a counter (suicide point) to the counter (webber) to bumping? ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/133 "2019-03-26T09:49:00Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > I’ve given options You’ve given us one strategy, a meta-strategy, actually: avoid. Do you have any others? > [@Bladewise](#): > > You don’t want Are you reading my mind? What number am I thinking of right now? > [@Bladewise](#): > > options that do not require you to quit the game or even log off for literally every problem presented > **[Definition of AVOID](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoid)** > > to keep away from : shun; to prevent the occurrence or effectiveness of; to refrain from… See the full definition ^ This is not PLAYING. This is NOT-playing. How do I win by PLAYING? I don’t want to NOT-PLAY. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/134 "2019-03-26T09:54:47Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > So basically you have an issue that there is a counter (suicide point) to the counter (webber) to bumping? No it is not my issue., My issue is that bumping makes it too certain, too controlled and too easy. Without bumping I would be fairly happy with ganking overall. OK loot scooping through a DST is kinda meh, but… Gankers will gank without bunping and to hear a ganker get uptight because fac police would be more of any issue in terms of -10 status means that the consequences of negative security status are actually worth something. This then makes flying a freighter accessible to solo players because if they see a gank fleet in position they have to time their decloak and warp as they see the gank fleet warp away from the fac police. This means that there is individual play to counter the gank fleet available to them. Personally I would give freighters the ability to use BS sized MWD’s too. A suicide point and the gank fleet coming in sounds about right to me in terms of gameplay, not what we have now. It will also make freighter ganking a multi-player action rather than a multi-boxer action as we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/135 "2019-03-26T10:08:12Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > My issue is that bumping makes it too certain, too controlled and too easy. Without bumping I would be fairly happy with ganking overall. OK loot scooping through a DST is kinda meh, but… I don’t know man. This will just result in every gank being instant and they will certainly die at the same rate as they do now. I would rather get bumped for an hour with the chance to organize a rescue than to die right away. I think bumping is actually the weak spot of the whole thing. They just use it because it is convenient and because people are flying AFK and without support that could actually do something in this situation. I hear other people complain how ganks are too instant and on the only exception to this where there is a window of opportunity for interaction it gets hated up until it is removed and everything is instant again. Sounds pretty backward to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/136 "2019-03-26T10:20:26Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I don’t know man. This will just result in every gank being instant and they will certainly die at the same rate as they do now. I would rather get bumped for an hour with the chance to organize a rescue than to die right away. I think bumping is actually the weak spot of the whole thing. They just use it because it is convenient and because people are flying AFK and without support that could actually do something in this situation. Then you and I have to agree to differ. I gave my reasons and an explanation about the change in game play above, it would make playing as a freighter pilot more fun and engaging around their own situational counter play. The issue with the state of Eve is that many people and that includes myself, think that there are some within CCP who are protecting a sub-class of Eve players. You just saw the comment that it would make it too expensive in terms of a cost that is pretty negligible when you think that they make profit on 1bn cargos at this point. Think about that for a moment… They are protecting their silver goose, the easy ISK machine for multi-boxers who can gank on an industrial level. I am quite happy for them to gank freighters but I believe it should be a group play thing. I know that they will be able to gank as multi-boxers still of course, but they have to be running around more active with their gank fleet flying intercept rather than bump bump bump 15 minutes is up lets head that way to gank freighter x being held their by bumper alt 7. Rinse and repeat every fifteen minutes. It is stale boring unimaginative play and says everything about the state of Eve in my considered opinion. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I hear other people complain how ganks are too instant and on the only exception to this where there is a window of opportunity for interaction it gets hated up until it is removed and everything is instant again. Sounds pretty backward to me. I have no idea on reflection why you think that an AG fleet would not be able to set up around certain gates. In fact I would think that it would make AG play more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/137 "2019-03-26T10:37:21Z")
I don’t think ganking freighters is unimaginative play especially compared to most other things in EVE. It is obviously optimized to farming, like it often happens in games where stuff gets min/maxed. The astonishing thing is that they can farm actual players which isn’t something you find every day in any game. Makes you really think where the actual unimaginative gameplay is if you have loads of AFK players who let their ships drift attention-less into a pirates nest I also don’t see how removing bumping makes freighter pilot business more fun and engaging, you completely lost me there. I also don’t see a reason why the multibox part will go away. One of the main reasons for bumping freighters is IMHO positioning, so you can hold it still and gank it with catalysts which can shoot like 1k in front of their nose without losing massive DPS. If they can’t position anymore, which is extremely fragile by the way, they will just use bombers and they are probably even easier to multibox. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/138 "2019-03-26T10:48:11Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I don’t think ganking freighters is unimaginative play especially compared to most other things in EVE. It is obviously optimized to farming, like it often happens in games where stuff gets min/maxed. The astonishing thing is that they can farm actual players which isn’t something you find every day in any game. Makes you really think where the actual unimaginative gameplay is if you have loads of AFK players who let their ships drift attention-less into a pirates nest It is min / max farming play at its worst, thanks for adding that point, it was on my list of things to point out to you. And they will continue to farm other players, AFK freighters will be very vulnerable still, however those actively piloted will have more counter play. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I also don’t see how removing bumping makes freighter pilot business more fun and engaging, you completely lost me there. I also don’t see a reason why the multibox part will go away. One of the main reasons for bumping freighters is IMHO positioning, so you can hold it still and gank it with catalysts which can shoot like 1k in front of their nose without losing massive DPS. If they can’t position anymore, which is extremely fragile by the way, they will just use bombers and they are probably even easier to multibox. I have indicated above how it will change things. think gate, hold at gate, while ganker fleet is position or hold cloak while they re-position, it enables clever counter play and timing. This makes it more difficult for the multi-boxer. Of course they will use SB’s for active players, but Catalysts will do fine 15 km out from the gate for AFK players. But it makes it better play for active freighter pilots. AG will set up repping and hunter killers around the gates, the gankers will of course have to get those tags, but I never agreed with those tags in the first place. By the way that was another buff to ganking that of course no one ever admits to… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/139 "2019-03-26T11:18:54Z")
> [@MarketWh0re](#): > > What can be done to turn it around? Eve is war, Eve needs war, Eve needs a new charismatic bastard that set the cluster on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901/140 "2019-03-26T11:41:48Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > The behavior that you’re talking about wasn’t a thing until crimewatch. Those friends would’ve been in neighboring systems hunting for their own targets. Yet another example of how nerfing emergent gameplay only makes PvPers have to go to more extreme measures to have any sort of success. You and many other players confuse ‘PvPers’ with ‘players who need weak targets in high sec to get their jollies, because they can’t handle actual PVP in low-sec or other areas’. EVE has always had this issue. I’m gonna call these guys ‘Weaks’ because that is the only kind of target they can handle. Weaks need mostly defenseless targets, in a space where they won’t get dropped on by bigger hunters, to thrive. Miner hunters, gankers, mission jumpers, those kind of folks. Something to think about: If these ‘PvPers’ were actually into PvP, and PvP can be found anywhere in low sec/null/WH space… why do they even care what happens in high sec? Why hunt in the only area in EVE where the mechanics make it tricky to do so. Something else: EVE was losing population quite noticeably during 2011 and 2012, mostly due to typical CCP mismanagement of the IP and player relations. At the very end of 2012, in Dec., CCP released ‘Retribution’ … which contained the ‘Crimewatch’ release you and all the other PVPers keep moaning about. Result? In Dec 2012+2013 EVE immediately recovered from the player slump and posted its best pop numbers ever. That is, until the Weaks found ways to continue to drive off player retention while constantly complaining that the lack of easy targets was killing EVE… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-eve/147901.md?page=8)