# State of Fabai, Aridia, and what should be done about it **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572 "2019-04-13T20:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/142 "2019-04-18T02:47:41Z")
That’s a lovely way of interpreting things. Allow me to offer another: > [@Ascentior](#): > > It is how close your thoughts resemble reality that do you such disservice, Kernher. This is an opening statement with no real substance to it, merely a claim to being telepathic (otherwise, you do not know what Samira’s _thoughts_ are, merely her expressions of those thoughts. But you’re apparently _far_ too lazy to be accurate in what you’re saying[1], so you just went for the incorrect version[2].) > [@Ascentior](#): > > The Empire continues to consider merit. Just on a much grander scale than many can comprehend. It is not by accident that a family comes to power. This is a lie. It’s a lie borne of desperate self-deception, but it remains a lie. The Empire doesn’t consider merit, it considers _fealty_. As has been pointed out, if you correct your so-called ‘betters’, you get disciplined. That’s pretty much the opposite of giving consideration to _merit_. That’s giving consideration to _power_. But that’s the entire structure of Amarr society, isn’t it? Right down to the Amarr faith itself: There’s holy scripture that says you have to obey the people in power. But where’s that holy scripture come from? Well, it comes from God. How do you know? The people in power said so. The book that claims ‘you have to obey those in power’ is infallible because of unprovable claims made by the people who directly benefit from its infallibility. And that’s _totally_ reasonable. That’s not shady at all, right? Convenient, though, isn’t it, that the book commands obedience to the people with the book? You never come across these holy scriptures that command utter obedience to some _other_ schmuck, some guy who flat out says ‘that’s nonsense, don’t listen to the book’, do you? > [@Ascentior](#): > > It isn’t a simple roll of the dice, or trick of the wind. No, it’s all a _scam_. It’s sucking up and currying favor until someone with power deigns to give you a little, and then sucking up some more to get ahead just that next little bit. Sycophancy, even over centuries, isn’t merit. Then we get the bit that all of that builds to. Consider that fact—that all of that _built_ to that question of ‘don’t they warrant more consideration?’, I didn’t feel it necessary to indulge myself in pointing out what a pathetic, self-serving, sycophantic little circle-jerk your society’s measure of value is, or what a hollow _lie_ it is when you call that kind of kowtowing to the biggest swinging phallus in the room ‘merit’. But apparently, you’re so eager to smug it up that you can’t even realize I cut to the chase there, and needed to get slapped around with a cold dead fish for a few paragraphs, just the same. Then you wank on a bit about the internal structure of PIE—and all of that is what it is. It’s your organization’s internal structure. I’ve never been a member of your organization, so I’m not exactly in a position to say ‘no, you’re misrepresenting this crap’, now am I? So I didn’t. What, you want a cookie for pointing out that I didn’t address a part of your post that would require inside knowledge I blatantly don’t have? Eat a cow pattie and tell yourself it’s fudge, that’ll be as honest as anything else you’ve spewed in that post. Oh, how _privileged_ your rank and file should feel, to be _allowed_ the honor of being your step-and-fetch bitches. After all, you’ve achieved so _much_, what with being _born_ to the right families. How clever you were, how industrious, to make sure you popped out of _that_ particular snatch. Generational merit is, and always has been, the most efficient way to create entitled parasites who live off the industry of others. And you’re no exception. When’s the last time you led a fleet? When’s the last time you were an _actual_ leader, instead of a stuffed frakking robe playing at being an Admiral? Samira’s family did work hard for generations. And they were freed, but not because of that work. Not because of _merit_, but because another entitled prat born to power decided to use them as a political chess piece. The fact that she’s finally decided to think for herself is a _testament_ to the success, perseverance, and sacrifices of those generations. And that you can’t _dare_ to let yourself see that is one of the most pity-inspiring feats of stepping on your own cock that I have ever seen. Now, again, this is all _contingent_ upon your core assertion: that generational merit is greater than _actual_ merit. Rather than be all long-winded and crap, I decided to just address the core assertion. Which I did. As a result, I didn’t think I needed to go and piss all over your entire pile of nonsense. But clearly, I am dealing with the brain-damaged here, so drink it down. * * * 1. Maybe you’re not! Maybe you’re just stupid! I don’t know, so I put ‘apparently’ in there to indicate a level of uncertainty. You see how that works? _My_, accurate use of language is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? 2. This, of course, then gets defended with ‘you know what I meant’, when in reality, the only means anyone has to ‘know what you meant’ is the actual words you put down. We could, of course, _assume_ that you mean what our minds would naturally leap to, but assumptions mean introducing room for error, and as the assumptions build up, that room for error multiplies again and again, until in short order, miscommunication is happening and both sides are getting angry at one another for not understanding. **This** way, I don’t have to get angry—I just accept that you’re being imprecise and call you out on it. You, of course, are free to go ahead and get angry if you like. I won’t even try to stop you. Why would I? It’s amusing when you do. ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/143 "2019-04-18T03:23:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I don’t know, so I put ‘apparently’ in there to indicate a level of uncertainty. You needn’t choose specific words to indicate your uncertainty. It is absolutely apparent to all. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Now, again, this is all _contingent_ upon your core assertion: that generational merit is greater than _actual_ merit. In your search to find the fault in my choice of language, you ignored it all. My ‘core assertion’ is that generational merit, is “actual” merit. And only by achieving things for generations may one raise their station. Falling from said station, one can certainly achieve that in a single lifetime. This, apparently, is difficult to understand for someone who believes accomplishment can only be measured in fleet successes. How wonderful it must be to not be burdened with consideration of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/144 "2019-04-18T03:42:41Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > My ‘core assertion’ is that generational merit, is “actual” merit. Yes, I know, and I addressed _that_ farcical claim in the post you decided to smug at and try to claim I’d ignored the rest of it. > [@Ascentior](#): > > And only by achieving things for generations may one raise their station. Tell that to Mitty. > [@Ascentior](#): > > This, apparently, is difficult to understand for someone who believes accomplishment can only be measured in fleet successes. How wonderful it must be to not be burdened with consideration of the future. No, I cited that as _one_ example. That’s why I followed it up with “When’s the last time you were an _actual_ leader, instead of a stuffed frakking robe playing at being an Admiral?” Because obviously, there is more to being an Admiral than battlefield command. But you evidence none of those skills, and when pressed, couldn’t even come up with an _example_ of **doing your job** , Admiral Fabricator-General. Wouldn’t even have taken much! Just a quick ‘where do you think all those ships PIE fleets use come from?’ would have sufficed. But you couldn’t even manage _that_ in your rush to ‘stop paying attention after 10 seconds’, could you? Mind you, I would even have respected that answer. After all, one of the projects I’ve got RepSwarm working on is the creation and maintenance of our Strategic Logistics Reserve. We’re well on our way to having those 400 fitted hulls set aside, but they’re a low-priority part of things as we maintain production and contract availability for all sixteen subcapital logistics hulls at a scale large enough to meet the needs of the Imperium. That, of course, is ancillary to my position as Director of the Sledgehammer Factory[1], our fittings and doctrines team, where my job is in fact _specifically_ to be burdened with considerations of the future, and watching for and anticipating the evolution of the fleet meta. But again, that’s a thing that leadership is required to do, and had you come up with _that_ kind of example, I’d have respected that, too. But ya didn’t, didja? I _do_ hope you’re not an example of ‘generational merit’… because if so, you’re a pretty sterling example… of _my_ thesis. Not yours. * * * 1. The name, of course, is actually something of a pointed deflation of our own pride. In the years leading up to the Hakonen fiasco, one member of the team was allowed to push through doctrines that were very special-purpose. The ultimate example of this was our cruisephoons. It should never have happened, but I was lax in putting my foot down. As the team leader, I offered to resign over my failure, of course. However, my resignation was rejected. Instead, I was directed to rebuild the team with more of a focus on feedback and give-and-take. The other directive I was given, and the name exists to make sure this is not forgotten, is that ‘We Build Sledgehammers, Not Scalpels[A]’. A. Though of course, this doesn’t apply when we’re designing a fleet composition that _actually_ uses the T2 Minmatar Logistics Frigate. I’d hate to be limited to Kirin. Slow, fat pieces of crap, for frigates… ---
**Author:** ![Ameriya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ameriya/32/251869_2.png) [@Ameriya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ameriya)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/145 "2019-04-18T07:01:36Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > This is a lie. It’s a lie borne of desperate self-deception, but it remains a lie. The Empire doesn’t consider merit, it considers _fealty_ . As has been pointed out, if you correct your so-called ‘betters’, you get disciplined. That’s pretty much the opposite of giving consideration to _merit_ . That’s giving consideration to _power_ . This woman speaks truth. It also explains why people were so butthurt at my earlier post, for failing to show difference to a mass-murdering maniac. Chakaid doesn’t intrinsically deserve respect. No one does, but least of all the ones in power. Those with power should be criticized, mocked, ridiculed, and insulted on a regular basis! (Gods, lampooning powerful figures, even liked ones is necessary to keep them from getting a big head.) So, yeah, when I asked him if he’s gotten laid recently and that he should maybe do that, the knee-jerk brigade was no doubt upset that someone would dare speak that way to the great and mighty Chakaid. He’s a holder, you know. ■■■■ him. ■■■■ anyone else that thinks they or their position or heritage **intrinsically deserve** respect. If I want someone’s respect, I will to out and earn it. And if I have it, but ■■■■ up in such a way that they decide to take it away, then that’s how it’s supposed to work. So, remember, Empress Catiz has no balls. Alar Chakaid’s are just as small! ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/146 "2019-04-18T10:37:34Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > Consider a family that has shown merit, consistent merit, for millennia. Do they not warrant consideration above the successes of a single life of fervent service? If we only care how much one can achieve in a lifetime, our future is as fleeting as the wind. They merit respect, certainly. But not _above_ the actions of a living person. Because when you do, then the previous successes of the family are then used to _excuse_ the faults of the person. “Oh, we know he comes from good stock, so we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.” This leads to the other side were the previous failings of a family or race are used to _diminish_ the successes of a person. The failings of a True Amarr are waved off because they are considered better than that, while failure from a Minmatar is expected because excellence is perceived as the exception. The amount of pressure and self-hatred that puts on the Minmatar is high, the knowledge that no matter _what_ you do, no matter _how_ good and dutiful you are, the smallest mistake will set you back by kilometers in the eyes of your peers, because it will be living down to their expectations. “Ah, there it is.” “I knew it couldn’t last.” “What did you expect from a Minmatar?” As Arrendis said, it’s about power, not merit. King Khanid was pardoned despite in his own lifetime performing the greatest treacheries, because he’s True Amarr. Because he was powerful and we could benefit from that power. Suddenly, mistakes that would have a family enslaved _for generations_ are swept under the rug, because of who did it. An entire heretical church – the Royal Church – is suddenly okay, and we’re all told to make nice and consider them members of our empire and faith in good standing? > [@Ascentior](#): > > For a decade the Praetoria did not allow anyone of the lesser races into our midst. You allowed Khanid and Ni-kunni. So why _not_ Ammatar, or Amarrian Minmatar, or Amarrian Caldari or Gallente? You _sabotaged_ their future by putting them in a secondary corporation instead of the primary one. And then when they inevitably failed or quit, “Well, what can you expect from the lesser races? Guess we’ll just close the Auxiliary Force, it was clearly a failure.” Of course, now Sir Raphael has been given the honor to join PIE proper. And that is a step up and I am very happy for him. But it’s too little too late. PIE’s gone back to recruiting True Amarr, Khanid, and Ni-kunni only. Because they’re the only ones PIE actually expects success from. > [@Ascentior](#): > > You have a family that served our great Empire for generations. They toiled and worked in the hope that you, that your children, would have a better life. That their offspring might possibly one day join the Chosen, side by side, in humble reflection of His light. My parents were as Chosen as yours. Their being in servitude says nothing about their faith, just like being in a noble family says nothing about a True Amarr’s faith. They were Chosen by their actions, by living dutiful and righteous lives in reverence to God. Just like their parents, and their grandparents. And after all that, in freedom even they chose to move to the Republic because they believed that our economic prospects would be better there than in the Empire. > [@Ascentior](#): > > It took you less than a single lifetime to undo all their work and throw their sacrifice to the wind. Their sacrifice was thrown to the wind the moment King Khanid and people like him were pardoned after serving exactly zero generations of slavery. > [@Ascentior](#): > > That is why you are dangerous. Your desires of success and change in a single lifetime will destroy the millennia of effort that others have committed. Pull entire families off the path that would one day see them risen above and basking in His love. God determines who has risen above and is worthy of His love, not Holders who have failed the greatest test by believing their faith was already proven. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/147 "2019-04-18T12:23:19Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I stopped liking this thread about thirty posts ago. Things are getting ridiculous. Quoted for posterity: on this, I agree with Aldrith Shutaq Newelle. ---
**Author:** ![Eclypt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eclypt/32/272994_2.png) [@Eclypt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eclypt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/148 "2019-04-18T15:51:23Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > The failings of a True Amarr are waved off because they are considered better than that, while failure from a Minmatar is expected because excellence is perceived as the exception. The amount of pressure and self-hatred that puts on the Minmatar is high, the knowledge that no matter _what_ you do, no matter _how_ good and dutiful you are, the smallest mistake will set you back by kilometers in the eyes of your peers, because it will be living down to their expectations. As excuses go, this is a poor one. If you are challenged, or tested, if you are questioned you must _rise_ to meet it. If you fail, or stumble, if you suffer setbacks, you must accept them as _yours_. You cannot hide behind feeble accusations of ‘it’s not fair’, or ‘they always had it out for me’. Such mewling surrender to your own ego’s need to shift the blame for your inability to walk the path of Righteousness is disgraceful to behold. The scriptures remind us, > _“The road to Heaven is paved with tribulation.”_ You encountered hardships and you turned away. Now, you cannot even take responsibility for your own failure. You only prove those who beheld you with skepticism as just, their concerns well founded. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/149 "2019-04-18T15:52:53Z")
You know absolutely nothing about me, or what I’ve done. > [@Eclypt](#): > > You only prove those who beheld you with skepticism as just, their concerns well founded. But thank you for proving my point. ---
**Author:** ![Eclypt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eclypt/32/272994_2.png) [@Eclypt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eclypt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/150 "2019-04-18T16:11:38Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > what I’ve done. I know the only thing you ever did that matters for your miserable existence. I know the only thing about you that matters now. > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > thank you for proving my point. > _“Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/151 "2019-04-18T16:58:04Z")
> [@Eclypt](#): > > > _“Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed.”_ And I continue to do so. I would, in turn, recommend that you Kingdomers also take the time to reflect on Kuria’s lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/152 "2019-04-19T15:18:19Z")
This was something I was trying to stay completely out of, there was no reason to draw me into this. And for clarification: would you consider any Minmatar who is contracted out for mercenary work with an Amarr aligned group be considered Ammatar? Because that’s essentially the extent of my relationship with AM. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/153 "2019-04-19T15:24:39Z")
> [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > This was something I was trying to stay completely out of, there was no reason to draw me into this. Sorry. You were the first current public capsuleer persona that came to mind. > [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > And for clarification: would you consider any Minmatar who is contracted out for mercenary work with an Amarr aligned group be considered Ammatar? I can maybe see that a Minmatar, flying for an established mercenary corporation, which takes a temporary contract from an Amarr loyalist organization, and deciding not to sit that one out, could _maybe_ defend it by “just a merc here”. Anything beyond that, basically yes, I would call it collaboration. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/154 "2019-04-19T16:29:14Z")
Its funny, because that it was I have been saying when ever accusations are levied against me yet I don’t seem to be given the pass. AM has purchased my services for the time being, during which I have been shooting at _other_ amarr aligned groups, and in no way compromizing the interests of the Republic nor our people. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-fabai-aridia-and-what-should-be-done-about-it/152572/155 "2019-07-18T16:29:23Z")
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