# State of High Sec Indy **URL:** \ **Category:** Science & Industry\ **Created:** [July 14, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084 "2022-07-14T14:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 1:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/21 "2022-07-16T01:56:37Z")
Perhaps one day, @Ash_Beldrulf will learn how industry actually works, rather than making monthly forum posts about how he can’t mine it all himself so it’s not free. Apparently it is not yet that day. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/22 "2022-07-16T08:39:25Z")
> [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](#): > > You’re still not getting it. When you spend 90% of the value on materials/fees to make something, do you know what we call the other 10%? Hint: it starts with a P and ends with a “rofit.” I call them “industry taxes” and “market taxes”. So it does not start with a pee. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/23 "2022-07-17T00:19:26Z")
If 10% of the value of what you’re making goes into that, you’re clearly doing something wrong. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/24 "2022-07-17T01:55:09Z")
if you don’t, then your math is wrong. sale tax : 3.6% broker fee : 1% in, 1% out add a 4% cost index+tax , and 0.4% relisting fees(one relist on buy, one relist on sell), and you reach 10% in taxes ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/25 "2022-07-17T15:07:46Z")
> [@Gergoran\_Moussou](#): > > Perhaps one day, @Ash_Beldrulf will learn how industry actually works, rather than making monthly forum posts about how he can’t mine it all himself so it’s not free. I will settle and be very happy with “no more Ash Beldrulf forum posts”. Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/26 "2022-07-17T15:21:58Z")
> [@Gergoran\_Moussou](#): > > If 10% of the value of what you’re making goes into that, you’re clearly doing something wrong. Or you are not taking everything into account and making losses xD ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/27 "2022-07-18T14:46:33Z")
I run a substantial profit. It’s just that most of what I make doesn’t ever go into HS. If someone else wants to make something with low enough margins that all profit gets eaten by fees, that’s on him. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/28 "2022-07-21T11:47:51Z")
> [@Gergoran\_Moussou](#): > > If someone else wants to make something with low enough margins that all profit gets eaten by fees, that’s on him. Empty claims. It’s actually even worse when you take freight into account. And no, you don’t run a substantial profit, because you can’t even realize that those values are the same in NS or HS. On the opposite, you literally claimed that there are no such fees, which is factually wrong. So your claim that you make “substantial profit” is empty at best, and very likely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/29 "2022-07-22T12:50:42Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s actually even worse when you take freight into account. Null industrials don’t need to haul a lot unless they actually want to trade to low or high. If he really just sells stuff in null, he’s probably “collaborating with” (some may also call it “scamming”) the null miners to get hands on most ores and minerals way below highsec trade prices, and selling his production at a price that is considerably higher then jita trade prices. The little stuff that actually has to be imported is brought by his alliance mates that don’t charge him if they have nothing else to put into remaining cargo space of their haulers when they haul for themselves. Null isn’t just void of players to compete with on the combat grid, it’s also void of players to compete with you on the market, and therefore the trade offers that are common in null would be called scam in highsec. Especially for items not called “Large Skill Injector”, “Ishtar”, “Mining Barge”, “Exhumer” and “Mining Crystal”, you proably have no competition anyways EDIT: Of cause PLEX is also popular in null. Someone mentioned Relisting Fees, but those really aren’t a concern in null. You only sell items that will likely sell out in the first order, or you don’t sell the item w/o previous aggreement that it will be bought, at all. Market Trade, at all, isn’t really popular in null, either. Instead, contracts are used, avoiding broker fees and trading fees. You can grab composite reaction materials in highsec and turn them into advanced components at a considerable profit in highsec, then turn those components into modules or ships, again at a profit. All composites originate outside of highsec, so why don’t the null/low/wh-ers just do that step and generate extra profit from the component and final assembly? The reason is that while the profits increase, the risk your production doesn’t quickly sell also does, and the nullers don’t like risk. Setting up large reactions jobs can plex your account w/o you login in since the last time you PLEXed it. While CCP can always do some rebalance to cause a proftiable item to go out of demand, reactions are input for all T2 manufacture, so it doesn’t matter what rebalancing changes are done, they’ll always have demand. Just look at the “new” composite materials for the battleship components… the profit in their reactions is 35% of the input material price, more then a year after their introduction, because the “reliable null industrialists” still haven’t realized their existence, and battleships never were something they would have built anyways, as the null price for those used to be so high that BS users were importing them from high even before the new BS component introduction. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/30 "2022-07-22T16:00:31Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > Null industrials don’t need to haul a lot unless they actually want to trade to low or high. If he really just sells stuff in null, he’s probably “collaborating with” (some may also call it “scamming”) the null miners to get hands on most ores and minerals way below highsec trade prices, and selling his production at a price that is considerably higher then jita trade prices. The little stuff that actually has to be imported is brought by his alliance mates that don’t charge him if they have nothing else to put into remaining cargo space of their haulers when they haul for themselves. > > Null isn’t just void of players to compete with on the combat grid, it’s also void of players to compete with you on the market, and therefore the trade offers that are common in null would be called scam in highsec. Especially for items not called “Large Skill Injector”, “Ishtar”, “Mining Barge”, “Exhumer” and “Mining Crystal”, you proably have no competition anyways You did get one thing correct. There are so many people selling Ishtars that I haven’t built any since last year. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Voice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_voice/32/386683_2.png) [@The\_Voice](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Voice)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/31 "2022-07-24T21:23:34Z")
You can also move to more profitable markets, believe me it can be great fun. Importing stuff buying it cheap, its not so bad and if you go sit next to lowsec you can setup a nice trading structure. A lot of places are not so full with people even in lowsec and nullsec. All it takes is a little bit of patience. ---
**Author:** ![paramontt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paramontt/32/329256_2.png) [@paramontt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/paramontt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/32 "2022-07-25T14:25:14Z")
read the first part/ yo ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-high-sec-indy/370084/33 "2022-10-23T14:25:52Z")
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