# State of the EVE economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343 "2024-10-21T14:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Analoreke\_Brunette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/analoreke_brunette/32/441333_2.png) [@Analoreke\_Brunette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Analoreke_Brunette)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/61 "2024-10-23T12:43:40Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s market I must’ve been out of my mind! ---
**Author:** ![starbelt\_stacy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/starbelt_stacy/32/435806_2.png) [@starbelt\_stacy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/starbelt_stacy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/62 "2024-10-23T12:55:08Z")
no point arguing… i htink my points were valid but obviously not. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/63 "2024-10-23T13:46:44Z")
> [@erg\_cz](#): > > And makes game more fair You’re playing the wrong game if you expect Eve to be ‘fair’. It should never be ‘fair’…rather, the unfairness is there for anyone to take advantage of. Eve is dystopian capitalism at its very core…in its very design and implementation…not Teletubbie La La Land. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/64 "2024-10-23T14:05:20Z")
> [@starbelt\_stacy](#): > > no point arguing… i htink my points were valid but obviously not. I read your original reply before you edited down, so I have an idea where you were going. I’m not trying to argue with you or belittle you, just pointing out what the actual facts and situation is. A lot of people don’t bother to really think about these issues because hey, it’s only a game, right? So Wadiest dismisses legal corporate accounting requirements as “hey they’re just miners”. And Stefnia does their usual narrow-focus, pedantic summary on some niggling side-issue, and then adds in extra decimal places to “prove” they know what they’re talking about. (Hint: the price of Plex isn’t controlled by the 4-decimal place calculation of the growth in the ISK supply year-over-year.) And Erg cz says “it’s easy to fix - all you need to do is destroy CCP’s entire business model and the game will be fine!”. So there’s no problem with being wrong about various aspects of the game - we all do it. I point some things out because I think it will help either you or other players understand the game and CCP’s actions a bit better. In your case, you’ve got some idea of financial terms (fiat currency etc.) but you’re not attaching those to the correct concepts _in relation to EVE_ (which is different than real world economy). In EVE, the inflationary fiat currency is ISK. It’s printed endlessly, it isn’t efficiently removed from circulation, and it’s only worth what players generally agree it is (as seen by market price trends). Plex is actually the “gold standard”, or commodity-backed currency, of EVE. It’s an externally limited commodity, directly exchangeable for items of real value, that is removed from circulation upon use. Plex pricing will always trend upward in the EVE economy because it’s a limited commodity being priced in an inflationary fiat currency. However, while the ‘rate of inflation’ has an impact on Plex pricing in the long term, in the short term, it’s more about supply and demand. To see the impact of that, you need to dig around for other EVE-specific tools. [Adam4Eve](https://www.adam4eve.eu/) is a great resource for looking at long-term trading trends. [Adam4Eve - Plex price, Buy/Sell volume](https://www.adam4eve.eu/commodity.php?typeID=44992) Take a look at the second chart on the Plex history, and you’ll see that Plex “buy” volume is heading up, but “sell” volume is heading down. That’s a classic supply/demand choke point and shows the increase in price is more due to lack of players putting new Plex into the market than it has anything to do with inflation or CCP manipulation. If you fiddle with the date range and take it back to say June 2018, you’ll see that the last time we had rapid high increase in Plex pricing (2019), there was a similar drop in the “sell” volume. Which then lead to lots of speculation and trading which further increased the price, until the price got so high that people started feeding Plex back into the market: either buyers, hoarders, traders or possibly even CCP (from confiscated reserves, _not_ from “just printed more Plex”). In fact almost every short-term rapid jump in Plex pricing is matched by a short-term drop in the sell volume. That’s what differentiates a commodity-backed currency (Plex) from a fiat currency (ISK) - limited supply and actual “use it and lose it” demand. ---
**Author:** ![starbelt\_stacy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/starbelt_stacy/32/435806_2.png) [@starbelt\_stacy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/starbelt_stacy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/65 "2024-10-23T15:08:10Z")
> BlockquoteI read your original reply before you edited down, so I have an idea where you were going. yeah man … no worries i didnt want to be seen to be maybe trying to start things or me starting arguments on here hence why i deleted my post. 😬 good post … got everyone thinking what drives prices ingame. peace n jam. 🤗 ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/66 "2024-10-23T15:25:21Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > And Stefnia does their usual narrow-focus, pedantic summary on some niggling side-issue, and then adds in extra decimal places to “prove” they know what they’re talking about. (Hint: the price of Plex isn’t controlled by the 4-decimal place calculation of the growth in the ISK supply year-over-year.) stop yapping. On the opposite of you, I’m not trying to present my opinion as a fact. Fact is, I don’t have an opinion on the topic. However your claim that isks volume “just keeps piling up and recirculating” is factually wrong. Just because the sink is lower than the faucet does not mean there is a problem in itself. It does not mean there is price inflation. The sink is 4.3% of the total volume PER MONTH. Saying it’s “not efficient” is plain BS. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/67 "2024-10-23T15:27:38Z")
It’s starting to get cold out. Need a place to warm up. Ah, this dumpster fire of a thread will do quite nicely… ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/68 "2024-10-23T15:33:31Z")
> [@erg\_cz](#): > > makes game more fair ![data-laughing](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/9/8/398d745e8fb3835e8e796153041f9655119aa5e3.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/69 "2024-10-23T16:20:55Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > The sink is 4.3% of the total volume PER MONTH. As usual, your narrow focus on a couple of decimal points misses the big picture. And so you resort to insult over debate. The very chart you link (sinks vs. faucets) shows that only roughly half the newly-created ISK each month is removed from the game by sinks. The other half is added to effectively permanent circulation (except for accounts removed or inactive). It doesn’t disappear over time, it just keeps changing hands. That’s what this chart is for: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/c/d/7cd8bd5fc974ff0d3008561ff2de0e5d61cfa985.png) Showing that not only does available ISK in the system keep increasing (causing inflation), but it’s increasing even more rapidly over time. That said, as previously pointed out… the Plex price increases in the short term have more to do with short Plex supply than with overall ISKflation. And many of the specific increases in specific items on the market have more to do with CCP’s changes to industry and markets. But that doesn’t mean ISKflation isn’t there and doesn’t have it’s own effect. And just FYI… I never claimed ISKflation was “a problem itself”, nor anything about Plex prices being a problem. I just stated factors affecting how they got where they are. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/70 "2024-10-23T16:45:20Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > As usual, your narrow focus on a couple of decimal points misses the big picture. No, I answer you specific claim. You claimed that the isk sink are “not effective” ; but they remove 4.3% of the isk volume per month so you are plain wrong. THIS was your claim, and it’s based on nothing (so it’s yapping) and what’s more it’s plain wrong. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > The other half is added to effectively permanent circulation (except for accounts removed or inactive). Nope. First, those accounts removed are the “active isk delta” so isk removed was 90% of the isk produced. That’s FACT, only 10% of the isk faucet is added to the system. Then, just because isk is more created than destroyed, does not mean it’s added to circulation. if people don’t spend that money then it’s not circulating. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/a/8/da88d540c54cdf46bb052b24dafbbc7491e198d4.png) > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > And just FYI… I never claimed ISKflation was “a problem itself”, nor anything about Plex prices being a problem. I just stated factors affecting how they got where they are. Yes you did : > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > That’s one of the primary reasons for the increase in Plex prices… Plex is continuously removed from the game, but the ISK supply just keeps piling up and recirculating. ---
**Author:** ![starbelt\_stacy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/starbelt_stacy/32/435806_2.png) [@starbelt\_stacy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/starbelt_stacy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/71 "2024-10-23T16:55:02Z")
![alaynagifs](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/b/5/4b568c11c26cfcf315044553a3d0cd0e136b8d7b.webp) ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/72 "2024-10-23T17:56:33Z")
![tool](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/7/7/d7715b8ea8aeabb4c9833e98089794f53f49e47e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/73 "2024-10-23T20:50:47Z")
Thanks, yeah, I see the similarity in the bulldog tenacity to worry an unrelated side-issue to death over a couple decimal points. And to be completely oblivious to objective reality, like "look at the money supply chart showing steady rapid growth and therefore **not** ‘90% isk sink efficiency’ ". It’s a shame - occasionally I appreciate the detail Anderson/Stefnia provides in some posts, but mostly they’re just off on a weird tangent that’s only meaningful to them. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/74 "2024-10-27T13:52:52Z")
97% of all statistics on the Internet are made up. Every day I both obtain and spend ISK. Last week alone I obtained and spent billions of ISK although I won’t say how or on what. Looks like the economy is doing pretty well. If we were in a recession, I wouldn’t have been able to do any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_frostpacker/32/515826_2.png) [@Felix\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/75 "2024-10-27T14:19:03Z")
I too spent 5 b on hypernet this month ![IMG_6786](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/1/8/c1898caed2af3fd1cb3807c6d288951ebdb6bfe9.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/76 "2024-10-27T14:42:10Z")
So here’s me stealing toilet paper from NPC stations to sell at Jita, while Frostie lights his cigars with 5bn ISK notes and proclaims ‘let them eat veldspar’. It’s clearly time for the plebs to rise up. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/77 "2024-10-27T14:43:49Z")
Either you are able to never touch it by your own will, or you should request CCP to disable hypernet for you. Meaning that anyone who touches hypernet more than once should automatically be removed access to hypernet. ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_frostpacker/32/515826_2.png) [@Felix\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/78 "2024-10-27T19:10:32Z")
It is just so addictive and like always telling myself I will win the next one. @ State of the EVE Economy > **44m Jackdaw** > > ![IMG_6791](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/3/a/b3a753d30522c968d413cd2b58497d5c4fb9737d.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/79 "2024-10-28T07:27:11Z")
> [@Felix\_Frostpacker](#): > > It is just so addictive and like always telling myself I will win the next one. Yeah but even if you win the next one, you are losing. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberslog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyberslog/32/424304_2.png) [@Cyberslog](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cyberslog)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343/80 "2024-11-28T22:47:45Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > Blame industrialists for this race to the bottom the past 2 decades. NO. CCP intentionally drove the cost of production up by almost 3 fold. First they added PI to production. then they introduced the “SCC Fee” with the promise that they would reduce taxes elsewhere in the game. Currently, the SCC fee accounts for more than 70% of production costs. It’s also added to research, copying, and invention. On top of that, they never reduced taxes anywhere else in the market chain as promised. This is what initially drove prices up. On top of that, the majority of players selling at, or below production costs, are taking advantage of mass production, to drive their costs down, low buy orders, and of coarse, the fact that many still have stagnant stockpiles of resources procured before the economy ballooned out of control. At the end of the day, CCP management has said “■■■■ it, milk them for all they’re worth” By increasing the cost in game, increasing isk and plex sinks, and increasing sub fees, they’ve unilaterally grabbed every single point of financial ingress they have, and started squeezing. Not sure if anyone remembers, but at one point in time, everyone staged up in jita in protest of this exact behavior, but here we are again, and the most anyone seems willing to do is bemoan the increased greed, and open their wallets again. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-eve-economy/465343.md?page=5)