# State of The Game, 2020 Edition **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992 "2020-11-26T10:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brewlar_kuvakei/32/422694_2.png) [@Brewlar\_Kuvakei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brewlar_Kuvakei)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/41 "2020-11-26T15:07:56Z")
Yeah it is worth saying that covid-19 has been a boon to mmo pc gaming but the decade has other wise been downhill with a move to quick snap gaming owing to less time & cash strapped consuners. ---
**Author:** ![Nick\_Bete](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nick_bete/32/279036_2.png) [@Nick\_Bete](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nick_Bete)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/42 "2020-11-26T16:40:24Z")
I’m certainly going to take everything Sol, a newbie killer, ganker and lowest common denominator “elite” PVP player, says seriously. 🙄 Grow up, Sol. You accuse others of whining but all I see is you coming onto the forums whining about balance changes that were made to give the sheep something of a fighting chance of defending themselves against “leet wolves” like you. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/43 "2020-11-26T16:53:50Z")
Hey, thanks for your opinion. Every idiot is allowed to have one and I likely value this more than you do. > [@Nick\_Bete](#): > > I’m certainly going to take everything Sol, a newbie killer, ganker and lowest common denominator “elite” PVP player, says seriously. Well … I’m not actually doing that. Haven’t even suicide ganked in a long while. You don’t even know how I used to play, else you would know that your statement is invalid when it comes to me. If you knew me, you’d know that … but you don’t. You just think you can throw me into the same bucket as the others. But hey … it’s not unusual for people like yourself to believe the lies they themselves create. Anyhow … … I’m sure there’s Irony behind you whining about someone supposedly whining about other people’s whining. That’s hilarious. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nick\_Bete](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nick_bete/32/279036_2.png) [@Nick\_Bete](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nick_Bete)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/44 "2020-11-26T16:57:04Z")
Sorry Sol but I do know you. Maybe you haven’t done any newb killing or ganking _lately_ but, you’re still a piss poor excuse for a PVPer and someone who would rather jump soft targets rather than get a fair fight from an experienced player. And now back onto my block forever list you and all your million forum alts go. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/45 "2020-11-26T17:01:02Z")
This thread has basically proven that some people arent tolerant of some other’s view no matter rationally laid out and supported by facts. Im not saying that OP renders debate over, and Im sure its not quite this cut and dry, but it appears that no kind of presentation of the view point presented by the OP will be acceptable enough for some. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Pete](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/simple_pete/32/285038_2.png) [@Simple\_Pete](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Simple_Pete)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/46 "2020-11-26T17:01:41Z")
Conjecture at best. Most of the care bears who are generating mass wealth are ratting in supers and titans or mining in capital ships. That happens to be also the same area of space where most bots existed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/47 "2020-11-26T17:14:28Z")
The players left when WIS was finally canned and will climb again when it’s redone properly and introduced to the new player type PA is successfully starting to attract. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Sayuri\_Akabashi1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sayuri_akabashi1/32/240716_2.png) [@Sayuri\_Akabashi1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sayuri_Akabashi1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/48 "2020-11-26T17:28:31Z")
Nice graphs. Yes, I love graphs. All of them. I am kind of promiscuous about them. Besides that I just want to say that correlation does not equal causation. Regards ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/49 "2020-11-26T17:37:26Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Im not saying that OP renders debate over, Good. Because like hundreds of OPs before him, he’s attempting to sell his pet narrative through the time honored technique of cherry picking data points and pushing a false correlation. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/50 "2020-11-26T17:38:40Z")
Pretty sure the game died when crimewatch took over and ccp sold out to black pearl (i think name of company?). Having said that, I’m interested in finding out how the game is doing since black pearl took over and if it is ever worth coming back. Plus I apologise for all the bad stuff I did (not that i’m singularly to blame for this game coming carebare paradise, but I did my part) to turn this game into PvE galxy of carebears. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/51 "2020-11-26T17:39:26Z")
And thats a perfectly viable platform for a debate. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/52 "2020-11-26T17:40:32Z")
and ‘by doing my part’ i mean by being one of the psychos that gave the game a bad rep and forced ccp to bend the knee to public opinion. And make the game family friendly. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/53 "2020-11-26T17:42:37Z")
What I’m trying to say is the game used to be a dark universe etc etc. And then people pushed things too far and and outside influences forced the game family friendly. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/54 "2020-11-26T17:57:18Z")
A year or two ago, lowsec was DEAD. Even places like Tama only had one or two people in them. Over the last six months, I have been very pleasantly surprised by how many pilots are flying around all over in lowsec. This is just my personal anecdote, tangentially related to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/55 "2020-11-26T18:46:20Z")
Didn’t anyone tell you guys that invoking evil by name is likely to attract its attention? 😉 > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > On the other hand, losing a content creator is what will drain the game of actual content. That is what happened when the catered to the carebears. We all said this for years and now finally CCP seems to have either gotten the message or as Arrendis said, are in a position to act on something they knew all along. That’s objectively _not_ what the Blackout data showed. You need the people out there mining and ratting to give your ‘content creators’_1_ someone to shoot at in relative safety. Because by and large, that’s what you want: to shoot people in _relative_ safety. You don’t want every other player you come across to have a 50% chance to blow up your stuff—you want to blow up their stuff more often than vice versa. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting that. It’s reasonable. It’s normal. But it doesn’t exactly lend itself to the warrior mystique the ‘content creators’ are trying to wrap themselves up in_2_. Worse, it’s unsustainable in the long run. You _need_ the PvErs. Not for the ‘who will make your ships?!?’ line or anything like that, but just because EVE is not a small place, and there’s already a _lot_ of empty space where nothing is happening_3_. For any healthy ecosystem, you need the prey to vastly outnumber the predators. And sure, you can float the whole ‘A miner or farmer is replaced fast’ nonsense, but the fact of the matter is: that kind of churn _isn’t_ good for the game. Each of those players is someone who’ll give bad word-of-mouth, when they could have been providing positive reviews to their friends, _and_ maybe eventually getting into PvP. EVE is a niche game, and an old one at that. Sure, right now it’s holding steady-ish, but what happens when the newness wears off for the Koreans, or the friggin’ plague subsides and people can actually go be _social_ again? In a week or two, will we see the Shadowlands release tanking EVE’s numbers? We’ll have to wait, because apparently the server rollback completely obliterated the last 3 days of login data, check it out: ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/e/5e151797b96d7758b400ce381e8816babfd12022.png) Monday… ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/6/2626b735c2015bc773a90cba5e9670bcefc1b1ad.png) Thursday. Tues/Wed? **Gone**. Edit: sorry, **3** days, as it was pointed out to me that we lose Monday at 06:26. * * * 1. Honestly, this has to be the dumbest euphemism since the ‘job creator’ nonsense it evolved out of, and like ‘job creators’ ignoring the fact that all economic activity is driven by _demand_, it ignores the underlying realities of voluntary activities. The argument is that without ‘content creators’, everyone they shoot at would be bored. But the people they shoot at, by and large, are doing what _they’ve_ chosen to do. They’re engaging in that activity voluntarily. It is what they _want_ to be doing in that moment, at least on that character. And if they wanted to shoot people, they’re perfectly capable of going and doing it themselves. The only people whose boredom the ‘content creators’ alleviate… are themselves. 2 In most cases, it’s not even a conscious thing. It’s not like folks are out there casting themselves as Janissaries or Klingons or whatever. But even unconsciously, it’s the ‘man of action’ myth, the idea that you’re a space-badass who goes out and _does_ things, living by the strength of arm and skill of blaster or whatever. And again: nothing wrong with that. It’s no different than the guys playing barbarians in D&D, except the goblins and kobolds you’re murderhoboing your way through in EVE are other people. An interesting corollary to that is the way the accusations of ‘bots’ against every single PvE player have increased over the years. When EVE was new and everyone was 17 years younger, people enjoyed going out to make another _person_ feel like crap on the internet a lot more. Not necessarily in EVE, but just in general. ‘Cyberbullying’ and trolling were seen as ‘good fun’ (and still are among a bunch of people who won’t admit they like picking on people who can’t fight back). As the players have matured, a lot more of it seems to get shunted onto ‘bots’, and ‘people who are bad for EVE’. Is that a way for players to justify to themselves a desire to be dicks to someone else? ‘Those aren’t really _people_’ or ‘they totally deserve it’? I don’t know, but I think it could make an interesting research project. 3. But don’t you _dare_ try to move in, because the null blocs that like to spread out and control EVERYTHING will come and burn you out, calling it ‘content’ even though it’s really just, you know, more picking on the little kid who can’t fight back. Honestly, that’s one of the reasons I’m glad to be where I am: when GSF’s gone to pick on someone else over the last 10 years, it’s been other big kids. About the only real remnant of ‘kick the kid in the helmet’ mentality is the Burn events, and CCP’s more or less killed those off w/the bumping changes. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/56 "2020-11-26T18:48:54Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Arrendis has something valuable to add to this… Sol, if you wanted to lead this thread in a certain direction, you just made a serious miscalculation. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/57 "2020-11-26T18:52:06Z")
According to people who don’t even know me … … I just want to watch the world burn … … and snack on people’s children while doing so. I don’t know. I didn’t quite have a direction. I just felt like posting it. Sure as ■■■■ did I make mistakes, but I doubt it changes much. In the end is CCP doing it right … … and proof will be when all these people vanished … … and we’re still around. Just like it has always been. 🙂 At least this time there’s a good chance they’re all being griefed away by CCP directly. _(PS: Arrendis is awesome)_ ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/58 "2020-11-26T18:54:07Z")
Yeah, Sol, gotta say, putting out the idea that Blackout _didn’t_ crash login numbers when we have the data that shows it does, _and_ your own chart agrees with it… here: > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > So let’s look at the first year of the post-BlackOut era: > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/3/e39597d2dd4c06b6f409dd243e96d4f4554b2bb4.png) > > There’s clearly a dip in September 2019, which is being overshadowed by a slow, lasting upswing. As you point out, July 19 to Mid-Sept 19. Which, on your chart, is a clear and accelerating decline. Then BO ends, and _poof_, the numbers start coming back. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/59 "2020-11-26T18:55:22Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > (PS: Arrendis is awesome) Which is more awesome? Arrendis or Pochven? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/60 "2020-11-26T18:57:01Z")
Arrogance demands I say ‘me, duh’. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992.md?page=4)