# State of The Game, 2020 Edition **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992 "2020-11-26T10:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/61 "2020-11-26T19:00:25Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > In the end is CCP doing it right … > … and proof will be when all these people vanished … > … and we’re still around. > > Just like it has always been. Don’t be so willfully ignorant. Or lie to make a point. Or act like a few remaining forum no-lifers constitutes anything remotely important to the game. A massive percentage of the “people like you” have left the game. And you know that. Just like always. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/62 "2020-11-26T19:05:35Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/8/f875c1b1f1d8516384304db921e2d1cafdb1454c.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/63 "2020-11-26T19:25:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The only people whose boredom the ‘content creators’ alleviate… are themselves. They encourage and inspire. They create relationships. The stories of eve aren’t just born from mass warfare, but nefarious activities as well. The scams, the thefts, baiting a bling fit raven, personal wars. And the great thing about the nefarious activities and minor wars? You didn’t need high SP ships and hundreds of friends. It’s accessible. Or it was. You understand how word of mouth spreads but don’t seem to believe it works both ways. > [@Arrendis](#): > > You _need_ the PvErs. Not for the ‘who will make your ships?!?’ line or anything like that, but just because EVE is not a small place, and there’s already a _lot_ of empty space where nothing is happening_3_ PVE players aren’t going away such that there will be no targets. Same as how there was no shortage of targets 5-10 years ago. If anything there are less players to shoot now than before. Not just because of a lower player count, but from too much safety. What’s the use in saying we need pve players to shoot, if you can’t shoot them? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/64 "2020-11-26T19:26:31Z")
Hmmm I like cheese But I also like peas If only there was some middle ground product I could choose to salve my need for validation. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/65 "2020-11-26T19:47:19Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > They encourage and inspire. They create relationships. The stories of eve aren’t just born from mass warfare, but nefarious activities as well. The scams, the thefts, baiting a bling fit raven, personal wars. And the great thing about the nefarious activities and minor wars? You didn’t need high SP ships and hundreds of friends. It’s accessible. Or it was. > > You understand how word of mouth spreads but don’t seem to believe it works both ways. Sure, but let’s not delude ourselves here. When people talk about ‘content creators’, what they’re talking about isn’t scammers and awoxers, corp infiltrators and thieves. They’re talking about small gangs roaming around null shooting miners and ratters. That’s it. And they don’t create those kinds of stories. If they did, they’d be awesome, because yeah, _stories_ are what pulls people in and keeps them here. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > What’s the use in saying we need pve players to shoot, if you can’t shoot them? Then why push them to highsec, where all you’ve really got is the gank? I mean, I don’t disagree: nullsec shouldn’t be safe _mechanically_… but if people put in the work to secure their space—watching for hostiles, responding to threats, and basically making their homes someplace the roamers don’t enjoy going to—why should that get shat on? Why is a couple of guys going out to jack off over picking on miners a good thing, but people working together to make conditions better for one another bad? If we’re going to fall back on ‘but it’s a _game_’, well, then why should we have to work for the raw materials to do everything else? If we’re going to play a game where we need producers and farmers, and where we celebrate personal _achievement_ and, as you point out, ‘the stories of eve’, why should we be catering to the people who just want their stories to be _easy_? Which is a better story? ‘Me and five friends went on a roam and shot up some Mackinaws’ or ‘X is the most fortified space in the game. You can’t get in without getting obliterated… _but we did_. And we made out like _bandits_’? I know which of those I’d be telling my friends about. I have stories of crap like sneaking out of nullsec through HED-GP when AAA used to hellcamp it… in a _Tempest_ with small guns (couldn’t train bigger ones yet, lol) and a prototype cloak. Don’t have many of ‘yeah, so this one time, I totally ran through a gatecamp in my nullified instawarp stiletto, hah!’ People put in the effort to make their space ‘secure’. Rather than whining about that, why don’t the ‘content creators’ take it as a challenge, and do something _worth_ telling stories about? > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If only there was some middle ground product I could choose to salve my need for validation. You should go with wasabi peas and then a nice piece of pepperjack as a chaser. \>.\> ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/66 "2020-11-26T19:50:17Z")
You mean that wasnt pistachio ice-cream? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/67 "2020-11-26T19:52:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That’s objectively _not_ what the Blackout data showed. You need the people out there mining and ratting to give your 'content creators’_1_ someone to shoot at in relative safety. Because by and large, that’s what you want: to shoot people in _relative_ safety. I wasn’t talking about blackout at all when I talked about “catering to the carebears”. I was talking about the years of continuously nerfing and removing options from Highsec aggression mechanics under the constant narrative that the new players must be protected. Despite even CCP admitting multiple times that new players where not the target of the aggression but rather old players who used highsec as an effortless farming ground. Obviously this where also the people who pretended to speak for the “new players” and how CCP loses money if they don’t make highsec safer. A lot of the people that made Highsec interesting vanished. People who liked to mess with game mechanics in creative ways, just to see CCP nerf them under false pretense. But the masses of new players that where promised by proponents of a dull and event-less savesec never appeared. Feel free to not care. I know some nullsec players look down on highsec. Fact is it has some of the most convoluted and weird game mechanics that lead to the most interesting experiences I had in this game and that is exactly what I like about it. Sadly most of it got slashed in the pursuit of helping newbros who did not ask for this. Most of what I experienced would not be possible anymore in todays EVE. The direction CCP takes today is vastly different. It shows that they look once again at the state of the game overall and tweak the sandbox to get a more sustainable economy. The focus seems to have shifted from the fruitless catering to the whining of certain groups out of fear to lose players, to an actual effort to enhance opportunities in the sandbox and in the process make a more interesting game that may actually attract new players and retain older ones. This is just my current impression. I may be wrong. I will reevaluate as we see new changes coming. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/68 "2020-11-26T20:08:02Z")
Wrong char. i’m on mobile. > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > A massive percentage of the “people like you” have left the game. And you know that. You’re right. I can only ever speak to the few still left. Like yourself, who’s far longer around than I am, iirc. 🙂 But all of _these_ guys, the doom sayers and safety fanatics, leave eventually. You know it, I know it, Xeux probably knows it, Ramona definitely knows it. … and I’m really looking forward seeing you around for the next ten years. The two of us will likely stick around until the very end, am I not right? : - ) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/69 "2020-11-26T20:26:17Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > … and I’m really looking forward seeing you around for the next ten years. > > The two of us will likely stick around until the very end, am I not right? : - ) Some quick back-of-the-napkin, er… mathing, shows that with my current assets I can PLEX 10 accts for 10 years. So, yeah. You and I will be chatting here for a while yet. Providing I can avoid another perma-ban. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/70 "2020-11-26T20:31:48Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I was talking about the years of continuously nerfing and removing options from Highsec aggression mechanics under the constant narrative that the new players must be protected. There was a legimate need to redo the wardec mechanics. They had substantive data (showed to the CSM a few years ago, in fact) that showed that highsec wardecs basically caused players to dock up for a week and play something else. Inconveniently, a week is about how long it takes to solidify new habitual behavior… so people just didn’t come back. They didn’t need to: they’d found something else to do. And I’m not saying that because I look down on highsec. I think there needs to be valid and healthy ways for there tobe conflict in highsec. I also think CCP’s revamped wardecs were a big swing and a miss. Yes, they stopped people from wardec’ing player corps w/no structures… but they also made it impossible for multiple groups of small alliances to work together in a HS war, which had been possible before. Worse, the problem that was supposed to solve (‘neutral’ logistics) didn’t get solved, it just moved the point-of-change from ‘change corps’ to ‘the corp hops into alliance’. And the answer to ‘why didn’t you guys take the time to build it properly from the ground up this time?’ was ‘it’s too hard’. Which is what happens when you’ve got a development culture that’s put a _lot_ of effort into _never_ looking at the big picture and figuring out how each part needs to fit together. They’ve been trying to be better about that over the last 12 months, but… honestly, I don’t have much faith left in them. We’ll see what happens as we move past ‘scarcity’ into ‘rebalance’, but CCP needs to fix the fundamentals of their game. Until they do that, all the ‘dials and knobs’ they love to twist and ‘tweaking numbers’ (which even the mineral changes have been) isn’t going to fix a damned thing. BTW, as a quick list of ‘fundamentals of the game that need fixing’.: 1. PvE is not engaging content. PvE, even the Abyssal stuff, is fundamentally boring. Once the problem is solved, you can repeat the process with little to no effort. Contrast this with the PvE in other games. Yes, generic ‘open world’ murder-hoboing can get pretty brain-dead, but when it comes to the marquee stuff, even once you know what you’re doing, _you need to execute_. You need to work the mechanics, use specific abilities, make specific environmental moves, and you need to do it right, every time. Something being on ‘farm status’ doesn’t mean you can get sloppy, it just means you’re more comfortable with your execution. 2. What’s each part of space _for_? What kind of farming and what kind of PvP do you _really_ want in each area, and how can you make the rewards worth the risk? What are the follow-on effects? For example: Should it even be _possible_ to anchor Keepstars in highsec? Doesn’t that just mean the big blocs with all the money can turn around and use oppressively annoying-to-kill structures that smaller groups can’t contest? If the TTT Keepstar in Perimeter were a Fortizar, so someone had a chance in hell of killing it, would they be tempted to try, so they could compete with their own market hub? I feel like this one (#2) is something they’re trying to achieve right now… but they don’t even have an internal answer right now, or at least… 3. COMMUNICATE MORE. Holy crap, CCP, if you tell us in advance what you _want_ to end up with, that gives us a reason to believe you have an actual plan, rather than ‘no no, we totally have a plan, but we can’t tell you about it because if we do we’ll have to change it all so you don’t know what it is’… _which they actually said_, on the same stream where 2 different marketing guys told players ‘go ahead, quit’. Anyway… I hope the _are_ getting a handle on things. But their track record says ‘don’t trust a damned thing until it’s live’. ---
**Author:** ![Mei\_Chu-ANN](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mei_chu-ann/32/224850_2.png) [@Mei\_Chu-ANN](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mei_Chu-ANN)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/71 "2020-11-26T20:44:52Z")
Interesting so as long as it matches your game style its great. What year did plex and skill injectors come in where you could bypass the grind and get a head start? Null is getting boring because your playstyle is not to pvp but only to disrupt whislt I go and play Shadowlands and form a new habit let me know how it goes for you. Other option of cause is to plex out my toons move back to low sec and pvp with no grind but also no real purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/72 "2020-11-26T21:04:38Z")
> [@Mei\_Chu-ANN](#): > > Interesting so as long as it matches your game style its great. Nope, not at all. If people want to do small-gang roaming, they should be totally free to do that. But that doesn’t mean their low-effort playstyle should trump other playstyles. And yes, I said low-effort. 5 guys spend 2 hours a night roaming, and another hour prepping for the next roam. That’s 15h per night, or 105 man-hours per week. 2,000 people put in half an hour each a night keeping an eye on their space. That’s 1,000h per night, or 7k man-hours per week… invested into _someone else’s play style_. That’s without going into the work needed to coordinate that many people, to keep them together and keep them willing to talk to one another, etc etc. And it also doesn’t include the fact that they’re _also_ putting in 2.5 hours a night of PvE, each. So, do you reward the 5 guys who’ve put in 105 man-hours of work to the detriment of the 2,000 people? Or do you reward the 2,000 people, and completely shut down the 5? My response is: ‘neither’. You need to have ways for the 5 people to put in meaningful effort that will give them an opportunity to do stuff, but which doesn’t make the 2k feel like their work securing their space is worthless. Similarly, you can’t have a game that does 90% of it’s marketing on the promise of massive empires and huge groups without acknowledging the value _to the game_ of the labor those groups put into simply _existing_. Because keeping those groups together _is_ work. It’s constant work, and it doesn’t end when you logoff. For example: Every time Rise and Team Talos do ship changes_1_, I have to go through, with my team, and re-evaluate what’s possible, and how our fits need to change on basically evey hull in the game. We do that so the regular line guys don’t have to, but it’s definitely work, and it more or less consumes my free time for 3-10 days out of every month. And I’ve got one of the easier gigs in leadership. And keep in mind: that’s not even time when I’m _playing_. In fact, that _keeps me from playing_. But it’s gotta get done for the group, so we do it. That doesn’t mean small gang play, or FW, or highsec wardecs, or literally _any_ type of play style in the game is worthless or bad. But it does mean that a balance needs to be struck, and to strike the right balance of risk and reward between play styles that involve _vastly_ different amounts of work, in **and** out of the client… CCP really needs to _understand_ those play styles a lot better. Right now, they _don’t_. * * * 1. For example, how this most recent update’s given us 130km torpedo bombers that do 2800m/s… because it was going to _nerf_ stealth bombers, right? ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/73 "2020-11-26T21:25:17Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > CCP really needs to _understand_ those play styles a lot better. Right now, they _don’t_. Half the time I struggle to believe they even understand the basics of their own game, how many of the people who make the decisions actually play? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/74 "2020-11-26T21:43:01Z")
It’s kind of weird how these “I need safe Hi-Sec space to gank in or I can’t really play” types go through such long, convoluted explanations and gloss over the actual facts in order to “prove” that hi-sec ganking and other forms of aysmmetric destruction (anything to avoid a fair fight!) is actually “good” for the game. Kind of reminds me of the “greed is good” speech in Wall Street. Semi-plausible on the surface, but actually it’s just a thinly veiled justification for “let me plunder and pillage, it’s good for you, really!”. All the complaining these gankers do about “high sec carebears” and yet they’re blind to all the crying the _gankers_ do when things don’t go their way. “OMG, CCP is **nothing but continual buffs to carebears**!”, they say. “OMG, Blackout wasn’t really bad for the game!” they say. I mean, they still haven’t stopped crying about Crimewatch 2.0 for heavens sake, which was **almost a decade ago**! Which brings up an interesting side topic. All these hi-sec gankers (the ones blaming all EVE’s ills on high sec being “too safe”, regardless of the fact that over 2/3 of the galaxy is “open season” hunting grounds), keep lamenting Crimewatch 2.0 and the way it made ganking have consequences. (Yes, it’s true, that same group that’s always saying “Ganking is cool because EVE decisions have to have consequences” absolutely _hate_ it when those consequences apply to _them_.) They say Crimewatch 2.0 was the beginning of the end. Let’s take an actual, factual look at that shall we? Crimewatch 2.0 was released with Rubicon on Dec.4, 2012. Let’s zoom in to those charts a little. ![EVE CrimeWatch](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/e/1e556f509d9f156037069511ab0255722d6e9405.png) You see that spike there labelled “PCU’12” (highest peak concurrent users of 2012)? That’s the login spike caused by Crimewatch 2.0. See that deep decline right after it? That’s all the gank-rats fleeing, frightened out of their gank-ships by the thought they might suffer some pain due to ganking! You see how right after the rats scurry out, the player level rises, stays at its **highest full year ever** , well into 2014? And then it only starts to decline again (continuing the decline it was experiencing **before** Crimewatch) once the gankers slowly come back in, figure out how to math the cost of their ship loss vs. the profit of the gank, and set up new ganking systems? Yep, that’s right - far from being the death of the game the gankers love to claim, Crimewatch 2.0 was the best thing that ever happened to EVE. The only problem was that CCP did nothing to follow it up, and eventually the gankers went back into business. The math is pretty clear - every happy ganker means dozens if not hundred (or even thousands) of unhappy gankees. It’s not sustainable. In the end, it hurts the game population. But the gankers can’t figure that out, because all they care about is having safe, easy, weak targets available in high sec, where the gankers themselves are unlikely to be hunted by other and better PvPers. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/75 "2020-11-26T22:04:55Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > When people talk about ‘content creators’, what they’re talking about isn’t scammers and awoxers, corp infiltrators and thieves. They’re talking about small gangs roaming around null shooting miners and ratters. That’s it. I didn’t think we were. I’m talking about wardecs, ganking, can flipping, ninja-salvaging, awoxing, theft… > [@Arrendis](#): > > I mean, I don’t disagree: nullsec shouldn’t be safe _mechanically_… but if people put in the work to secure their space—watching for hostiles, responding to threats, and basically making their homes someplace the roamers don’t enjoy going to—why should that get shat on? If the end result is unhealthy, it’s going to have to be addressed. Maybe you deserve that safety for all the work you do (and i certainly appreciate the level of talent in goons). But a healthy game just matters more. A couple of guys jacking off over miner kills is still a story to someone. And they’ll jack off with other jack offs in a jack off Discord. Maybe a small impact economically but a big impact personally. A ‘magic moment.’ > [@Arrendis](#): > > Which is a better story? ‘Me and five friends went on a roam and shot up some Mackinaws’ or ‘X is the most fortified space in the game. You can’t get in without getting obliterated… _but we did_. And we made out like _bandits_’? Different audiences seek different stories. For some, watching your amazing escape will leave them in awe. Others might look at hunting mackinaws and think ‘i can do that!..’ And, at the risk of _thinking of the children_, new players may be very interested in the latter. A demonstration of the agency available to them and their small rag tag group. But not just new players, but any small inexperienced group. And such groups don’t stay small and inexperienced forever…they just have to start **somewhere**. > [@Arrendis](#): > > why don’t the ‘content creators’ take it as a challenge, and do something _worth_ telling stories about? I think we’ve made such stories so difficult to pull off that they’ve become too rare or everyone looks at it and thinks ‘_no chance i could do that_’. Like Olmeca and his excavation drone stealing. Way outta my league. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/76 "2020-11-26T22:08:04Z")
This whole “nerds jacking off about a computer game” is an odd thing to say. The guys that are most guilty of this are the nullsec guys. One of the alliances is literally called “Fraternity.” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/77 "2020-11-26T22:11:54Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Maybe you deserve that safety for all the work you do (and i certainly appreciate the level of talent in goons). But a healthy game just matters more. But then we come back to ‘CCP marketing off the efforts of massive blocs’. Can’t have it both ways: if they’re going to use us to draw people into the game, then they need to make a game where ‘a healthy game’ _includes_ our activities, rather than actively working to prevent us from doing the things we need to do in order to have those massive fights they like to crow about. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > And such groups don’t stay small and inexperienced forever…they just have to start **somewhere**. Absolutely! And there needs to be room for the gankers, the awoxers, all the people providing those small stories… but catering to _them_ at the expense of others is just as bad as catering to us to the detriment of other playstyles. Like I said: > [@Arrendis](#): > > to strike the right balance of risk and reward between play styles that involve _vastly_ different amounts of work, in **and** out of the client… CCP really needs to _understand_ those play styles a lot better. As for Olmeca’s excavator-theft… nah. He was actually just chain-spearfishing with a sequence of CDs to get drones out of control range, and then scooping them for a later hand-off to a blockade runner. Not complex,but unlike all of CCP’s PvE… it’s all in the execution. Practice, you can do it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/78 "2020-11-26T22:15:26Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > > [@Arrendis](#): > > > > CCP really needs to _understand_ those play styles a lot better. Right now, they _don’t_. > > Half the time I struggle to believe they even understand the basics of their own game, how many of the people who make the decisions actually play? Want to know what I struggle with ALL the time? How people like you two can’t come to terms with the fact that PA/CCP doesn’t give a rats ass what you think. The only people they listen to are investors. And investors want to see a favorable ROI every quarter. If that means banning you two for no apparent reason, then that’s what will happen. If removing all PVP will boost profits by 0.001%, you better start warming up your barge. If people would take off the blinders and look back at how this game has been trending since the new overlords took over, we’d see a lot less walls of text in threads like this. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Danielle\_Sexbang](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/danielle_sexbang/32/242545_2.png) [@Danielle\_Sexbang](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Danielle_Sexbang)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/79 "2020-11-26T22:18:03Z")
I know you agree with my post…want some extra whine with your cheese? Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992/80 "2020-11-26T22:18:30Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > How people like you two can’t come to terms with the fact that PA/CCP doesn’t give a rats ass what you think. The only people they listen to are investors. And investors want to see a favorable ROI every quarter. Nope. They also listen to _customers_, because unlike most EVE players, they understand that their financials are driven by demand, not supply. If they make a game nobody wants to play, they make no money. And that’s about the only attention a post from someone who signs their forum posts deserves. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/state-of-the-game-2020-edition/281992.md?page=5)