# Station Buffs/Bashing and the Industrial Impact **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095 "2018-11-26T20:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/21 "2018-11-27T06:24:06Z")
I personally have been asked by groups about the viability of removing all say athanors from a pocket with ice and placing their own with tax. After giving the figures of my own experiments you may see groups do this for the passive income. Having the only ports in a reasonably populated area is insanely lucrative if you can keep it that way with little effort The other route is to start your own protection racket which was even more lucrative as you can charge a flat amount per structure. It involves policing and threats and of course making examples of those who fail to pay however it will likely become the norm Edit: to clarify those were only given to old friends. You want exact figures go try it šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/22 "2018-11-27T06:36:10Z")
For those of you who are not looking and making comments without knowledge you can start by looking at an alliance called Spectrum Alliance, who last I looked cleaned out almost all the structures in a number of constellations in Kador. This man gets it: > [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > That is the issue. Very few corps that are killing stations are killing them to drive out a competitive station and drop a station to server the region. The corps that are killing stations are just killing stations for no reason other then to kill them. This is an issue I have been seeing first hand since late summer or early fall. and > [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > In high sec, there is serious issue with find well fitted stations for certain parts of the indy chain. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/23 "2018-11-27T06:44:55Z")
Itā€™s simple, they push for the so called ā€œno wardec securityā€ for the small guy, pay mercs to bash independent sturctures and milk hisec to add funds to their wars. But you now, ā€œProtect the weak and the childrenā€ā€¦ lmao. Upwellgeddon incoming! ---
**Author:** ![Netan\_MalDoran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/netan_maldoran/32/426257_2.png) [@Netan\_MalDoran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Netan_MalDoran)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/24 "2018-11-27T07:14:16Z")
Destroyed upwell structures drop a wreck that is salvageable. You get around 100-200 mil in salvage from the medium structures. You get more the bigger the structure is. I dont think this is the case with POSā€™s. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/25 "2018-11-27T07:23:48Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > Itā€™s simple, they push for the so called ā€œno wardec securityā€ for the small guy, pay mercs to bash independent sturctures and milk hisec to add funds to their wars. But you now, ā€œProtect the weak and the childrenā€ā€¦ lmao. > Upwellgeddon incoming! This is happening now as in before the war dec changes limiting them only to people with structures. So your timeline is incorrect, what is the betting you will be saying this as if it is true a couple of years in the future, it is the same as people saying blanket war decs were caused by the removal of the watch list, nope that was happening beforeā€¦ Perhaps this is going to cause people to gang together to defend key structures in hisec, or at least I hope that happensā€¦ > [@Netan\_MalDoran](#): > > Destroyed upwell structures drop a wreck that is salvageable. You get around 100-200 mil in salvage from the medium structures. You get more the bigger the structure is. > I dont think this is the case with POSā€™s. Quite right, there is a value in blapping Upwell structures which is why I could never understand the people whining that there was no point to blow them up. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/26 "2018-11-27T07:32:33Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > So your timeline is incorrect No, they blap stuctures now so that their own infrastructure is ready day 1 of the new wardec system. Then new system is made only to discourage the small guy to own a structure. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/27 "2018-11-27T07:40:00Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > No, they blop stuctures now so that their own infrastructure is ready day 1 of the new wardec system. Then new system is made only to discourage the small guy to own a structure. Yes, you do have a point, in that the sheer number of people who just plonked them down made it too much of a challenge. So after December as people can avoid war decs by not having a structure, only very hardy souls or more able entities will put them down so this could change the way hisec works. As far as I am concerned anything that pushes people together in hisec is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdict\_Benderpatch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cumberdict_benderpatch/32/108083_2.png) [@Cumberdict\_Benderpatch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cumberdict_Benderpatch)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/28 "2018-11-27T07:46:03Z")
As expected, people are now asking for another change. Give an inchā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/29 "2018-11-27T07:54:44Z")
Itā€™s not like this has been a long running complaint for highsec structures over their lack of defensive capability since they get none of the AOE weapons which actually make Citadels dangerousā€¦ People couldnā€™t possibly have been complaining over how they lack any serious force multiplication ability for the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/30 "2018-11-27T08:13:21Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Itā€™s not like this has been a long running complaint for highsec structures over their lack of defensive capability since they get none of the AOE weapons which actually make Citadels dangerousā€¦ People couldnā€™t possibly have been complaining over how they lack any serious force multiplication ability for the entire time. Very true, I had come to the conclusion that I would have to use the school of fish approach to put up multiple Raitaruā€™s and have one fully rigged and try to hide which one it was. It is incorrect game balance and CCP are especially poor at this. > [@Cumberdict\_Benderpatch](#): > > As expected, people are now asking for another change. Give an inchā€¦ So this is in your own mind and is very simplisticā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/31 "2018-11-27T08:18:36Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > game balance and CCP [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/0/2/9027c1f1f81661f487e0c862806fd8b9188313db.jpeg "I made a robot to help me argue on the internet") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJiRijiLwbQ) Thatā€™s how they balance the gameā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/32 "2018-11-27T08:24:58Z")
As you are saying it is how you argue on the internet I will take it that you are insulting yourself šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/33 "2018-11-27T08:25:32Z")
i added the missing partā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/34 "2018-11-27T08:25:53Z")
In which case I agree with you! And withdraw my reply above. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/35 "2018-11-27T11:20:31Z")
Is it a problem that people are just shooting structures to shoot structures? If you canā€™t defend it, you canā€™t defend it. As for specific numbers when it comes to system indexes and so, I havenā€™t crunched the numbers so I canā€™t say if itā€™s balanced or not. Hopefully CCP knows how to balance. But from past experiences, sometimes it does feel a bit like the above youtube clip. However in my opinion, anything that stops the structure spam and forces players to organize in order to get said structure bonuses is a good thing in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/36 "2018-11-27T14:58:45Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > Is it a problem that people are just shooting structures to shoot structures? Depends on your perspective, if you think you are playing a deep meaningful game at a strategic level and people come along and shoot it because they can, or they want to upset you, or they think it generates imaginary tears to give them a kick then it is a bit of a let down when you think you are playing something deepā€¦ > [@Maekchu](#): > > If you canā€™t defend it, you canā€™t defend it. Why do you think that I have not put any structures up in hisec period, it is because I am unable to defend them. As I pointed out in this thread that if this change pushes people to gang up then it is a good change. Just near my base system someone put a Soityo up, in hisec and it is a two man corp, and they now have a war dec from PIRAT, that is seriously dumb. > [@Maekchu](#): > > As for specific numbers when it comes to system indexes and so, I havenā€™t crunched the numbers so I canā€™t say if itā€™s balanced or not. Hopefully CCP knows how to balance. But from past experiences, sometimes it does feel a bit like the above youtube clip. The balance is out in terms of what hisec currently is and what dominates hisec at this point, now if entities do gang up then the balance would be different, perhaps CCP does know what it is doing here, but only time will tell. > [@Maekchu](#): > > However in my opinion, anything that stops the structure spam That is not an issue, though I do find the inability to put down a structure and have it for my own use and have it hide its location when it is put down unless probed is a bit lame. But how would that be structure spam if it did not show on your overview, though of course we all get to see them with the sudden flash of hidden structures when you first arrive in a system. Seriously dumb design by CCP thatā€¦ > [@Maekchu](#): > > and forces players to organize in order to get said structure bonuses is a good thing in my book. But we agree there, it is a good thing if it does, will be interesting to see how this develops if there is any life left in hisec of courseā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![JonasML](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonasml/32/255582_2.png) [@JonasML](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JonasML)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/37 "2018-11-27T15:26:55Z")
800 character nullsec alliance? Assume everyone has at least 1 alt in there (some will have more), now itā€™s maybe 400 people. Spread across several time zones, now you have maybe ~100 online at any given time, although some might come on just for the structure kill if theyā€™re really dedicated. That means the fleet size is maybe 150-200 people. There are plenty of options to deal with that. Now, if youā€™re saying you got hit by a fleet of 800 from a nullsec alliance, thereā€™s only a few reasons they would go through the grind and itā€™s not for kb statsā€¦ all those reasons come down to you crossed them in some way, and you might want to consider doing some diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![JonasML](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonasml/32/255582_2.png) [@JonasML](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JonasML)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/38 "2018-11-27T15:33:24Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > For those of you who are not looking and making comments without knowledge you can start by looking at an alliance called Spectrum Alliance, who last I looked cleaned out almost all the structures in a number of constellations in Kador. Bahahahhaa itā€™s a 190 member alliance. They are not a nullsec group. Probably cleaned out all the crap to put up their own structures. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/39 "2018-11-27T15:36:48Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > If you want High sec corps to grow and co-operate, you need the highsec structures to have competitive bonuses that actually allow them to grow and co-operate. The high sec ā€˜bonusesā€™ get very quickly over run by the system index increases caused by concentrating industry. Which means you actually get punished and become worse off by working together. Well then, how about anchoring structures in a bunch of systems instead of just one? After all the whole point of uniting in order to defend is so that you can defend your structuresā€¦ no one said anything about everyone using exactly one structure in single systemā€¦ Also thanks for trying to get sneaky nerf to low secā€¦ may you become a sacrifice to Blood God. ---
**Author:** ![JonasML](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonasml/32/255582_2.png) [@JonasML](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JonasML)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095/40 "2018-11-27T15:44:14Z")
The highsec corps should be the exception rather than the rule. Just because you all want to have your 1 man corp, doesnā€™t mean you should get the perks and benefits of those that are able to work together. Personally Iā€™ve been waiting for years to see CCP bulldoze them all into lowsec/nullsec space. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/station-buffs-bashing-and-the-industrial-impact/123095.md?page=3)