# Sugestion to CCP to increase New player Retention and OMEGA **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 15, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236 "2021-01-15T12:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/175 "2021-02-19T15:43:08Z")
get into very new pilots shoes… Do you think new pilot knows what is “core skill” ? and why did they trained for battleships and large guns OR indy skills when they figured out they like most exploration ? as alfa ? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/176 "2021-02-19T15:48:02Z")
I too was a new Alpha pilot, almost 4 years ago. Maybe I was a strange new player, but I knew about core skills and what I wanted to train a couple of days after I started, as I noticed how the training system worked, read up on EVE uni wiki and other sources, and made plans based on it. Trained a little into mining for ISK, some exploration for more ISK, joined a corporation, looked at the types of ships they needed in fleets, decided to train into logi, etc. Why are you expecting new players to be helpless things that cannot do their own research or make their own mistakes? And why would it be bad for a new player to have trained a little bit of everything? I rarely use my mining skills on my main anymore, but that doesn’t mean they’re useless and should be extracted. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/177 "2021-02-19T15:59:52Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Why are you expecting new players to be helpless things that cannot do their own research or make their own mistakes? i don’t expect or think they are helpless.. this is a huge generalization you implying on me like i do think that way. … I had seen very conscious and very unconscious players.. 2-month-old wand when are talking about skills and mentioned core skills asking what are these core skills which skills are core skills … As well as some players don’t like someone teaching them or helping them what to do.. as well as many players, seek for someone to give them direction … tell them what to do… I did engage both player attitude in the past and a lot of different shades of in between them. I know the psychological mechanisms of incentivization, motivation, instant gratification, and averse behaviors. and reflections of these on player attitudes and behaviors.. This idea is the very edge fine-tuned strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/178 "2021-02-19T16:05:12Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > This idea is the very edge fine-tuned strategy. Good intentions, but that isn’t enough. I’m afraid your idea will encourage newbies (and veterans) to train a specific set of skills tied to one type of attributes for maximum sp/hour because that’s much more efficient than split training all the different core skills. After a couple months training they then can become Omega (not earlier, it would be a waste to use the SP reshuffle at 3 or 4m SP) and finally fly what they wanted to fly all along in the past month. If they want to be efficient, that is. Of course it is unwanted to have newbies train useless skills for months before they can train fun skills, just because it’s more efficient. But players will do it, efficiency is a large goal of many players. This is also the reason the old learning skills were removed: it was not fun to be forced to train useless skills for more efficiency. Your idea encourages unwanted behaviour, which is why I think it is a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/179 "2021-02-19T16:07:28Z")
which unwanted behavior can you specify with one sentence? i didnt understand ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/180 "2021-02-19T16:09:47Z")
New player sees content locked behind SP, so he wants most SP per hour. With your suggested SP reshuffle, I would recommend them to change attributes to for example int/mem, get int/mem implants and train only int/mem skills for months to gain maximum SP per hour. After they reach 5M SP they can then use your free reshuffle to get the skills they actually want. As result, the newbie has been able to fly nothing for months for good SP rates, or has to suffer through lower SP rates and being able to train what they want. This is a direct result of your free SP reshuffle, because this ‘efficiency’ does currently not exist; it simply isn’t efficient to do this with skill extractor prices as they are. Or in one sentence: **You offer them the effect of 10 free skill extractors, which makes it more efficient to train useless skills until 5M SP, rather than fun skills.** As a player who cares about efficiency, EVE would get retention issues when they present me this choice on day one. As you claim this would help retention of new players, it seems it may actually do the opposite of your intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/181 "2021-02-19T16:17:17Z")
The Magic 14 core skills are mostly not needed for a lot of stuff in EVE, even then most really only need to be trained to L3. I’ve started referring to them as “filler skills” and when you have no idea what to train, work on one of them. You’ve given no substance on WHY new players need to be able to reshuffle skills after becoming Omega. For 17 yrs that’s never been an option and it doesn’t now. If they wanna reshuffle, they can buy an extractor or 10. When I trained into PI after realizing I didn’t wanna do it, I didn’t cry about reshuffling my skills. I bought extractors and added to other skills ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/182 "2021-02-19T16:21:04Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > New player wants most SP per hour. and this is unwanted behavior… ? > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I recommend them to change attributes to for example int/mem, get int/mem implants and train only int/mem skills for months to gain maximum SP per hour. After they reach 5M SP they can then use your free reshuffle to get the skills they actually want. So far what I know for years was suggested not to do any attribution redistribution unless you have ready skill train focused for 1 year to the maximum outcome … And this is also your way of directing new players.. Not every new player has someone to direct them also not necesarily this is the only way.. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Newbie has been able to fly nothing for months for good SP rates, or suffer through lower SP rates and being able to train what they want. Why? I do have many new pilots a few weeks old …hit hundreds of kill mails and a lot of solo kills by having crazy fun and a lot of content … > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > You offer them the effect of 10 free skill extractors, which makes it more efficient to train useless skills until 5M SP, rather than fun skills. they will only replace skill points on Alfa limited skills > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > As a player who cares about efficiency, EVE would get retention issues when they present me this choice on day one. Players can go around and have funn and distribute skill all over everywhere by knowing that when they figure out they can just reshape them and focuse on what they most like.. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > As you claim this would help retention of new players, it seems it may actually do the opposite of your intentions. no ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/183 "2021-02-19T16:26:03Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > and this is unwanted behavior… ? No, the unwanted behaviour is that newbies who care about SP efficiency will not be able to fly anything until 5M SP. But it seems you do not understand what I tried to say. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/184 "2021-02-19T16:27:40Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > No, the unwanted behaviour is that newbies who care about SP efficiency will not be able to fly anything until 5M SP. why they cant??? opposite.. they can invest on whatever they want by doing that they have a chance to reorganise when they decide how to shape their characters future ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/185 "2021-02-19T16:28:01Z")
How about no??? in RL you can not just go and exchange learned skills for different ones to perform in a different profession. You have to go learn new ones whilst retaining what you have already. Now in EvE, choices are supposed to be meaningful, mistakes are supposed to teach, and that includes losing a ship(dying)… All this is, is coddling and what is wrong with most of the RL world today…stop it. -1, this idea is so much garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/186 "2021-02-19T16:28:39Z")
… at a reduced SP rate. Or they can train at a better SP rate, and be limited to skills with certain attributes. After your free SP reshuffle they will have more SP than other newbies that decided to tran the less efficient way. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/187 "2021-02-19T16:28:40Z")
why they cant ??? they can do whatever they want without regret … and experience … gain far more consicousness about skills learn them understand how things works… ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/188 "2021-02-19T16:29:54Z")
i have never mapped my attributes and even common question sometimes couple of month old player learn /hear attributes first time and takes time for them to figure out … Seem like you are think like a veteran not new player ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/189 "2021-02-19T16:30:22Z")
CONSEQUENCES. Actions, choices, decisions all MATTER. Stop the ■■■■■■■ coddling of newbs. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/190 "2021-02-19T16:31:41Z")
I had a plan for attribute mapping made in my second or third week of EVE as newbie. We’re different, and I guess that’s why you don’t see the issues your suggestion may bring. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/191 "2021-02-19T16:32:27Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > idea is so much garbage. tell CCP for their garbage about skill extractors and injectors. Also if you use even one of them you are not different garbage either in your own judgement . and deep inside you know the answer you dont need to tell me . … You have that right bu you dont wish same thing for a very new player who even doesnt have clear clue what he is doing most of the time… And develop it over time ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/192 "2021-02-19T16:34:29Z")
oh shut up… I never mentioned anything about injectors or extractors… How ever you wanting to let people freely move skillpoints around or into new skills just cause they felt they had mistakes and subbed for the 1st time??? Jesus christ, you are something special and an idiot…do you want a SAFE ROOM as well?? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/193 "2021-02-19T16:36:51Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > You have that right bu you dont wish same thing for a very new player who even doesnt have clear clue what he is doing most of the time… And develop it over time Also I started EvE 10 years ago…no tutorial, no help just toxic players my 1st couple of months, and definitely no such thing as skill injectors or extractors. SO YES A NEWBIE SHOULD DEVELOP OVER TIME!!! IT IS HOW ONE LEARNS!! ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236/194 "2021-02-19T16:39:31Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > tell CCP for their garbage about skill extractors and injectors. Nothing wrong with skill injectors and extractors, in my opinion. Something would be wrong when these things were available for free, like your suggested SP reshuffle. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sugestion-to-ccp-to-increase-new-player-retention-and-omega/290236.md?page=10)