# Suggestion for new player acquisition and retention **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930 "2020-02-24T22:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/41 "2020-02-25T00:04:00Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > I’ve been in rookie channel, helping folks, since 2007 pretty much. On different characters of course. I’ve made all kinds of YT guides, UNI Wiki makes use of some of my old videos, I take people 1 on 1 to explain details to them. IF someone is a regular in that channel I WILL recognise his name and your name just draws blanks. So yeah… > > On newbies: Almost no ACTUAL newbie asks questions about big fights or massive fleets or whatever. Most just joined yet another random MMO to try out, expecting just another WOW or Guildwars or whatever. > > The ones who DO ask such questions are pretty much invariably alts, pretending to be new. And it’s very easy to out these fake newbies, you can smell them from miles away and I generally call them out for it right away or just put their name in a notepad and guess what: it might take a few hours or a few days where they, by accident, drop their guard and state something only experienced players could know, that or they just give up the effort of trying to hide, partly because they were being called on it. > > Result of all that: Almost no ACTUAL newbies came to EVE for the massive fleets fights or similar. Also because CCP stopped marketing the game as such (do they even market it at all atm, I don’t even know). > > If you had actually put in time in Rookie and your agenda wasn’t so hilariously obvious, and you wouldn’t lie so much as you have displayed in these last 2 threads… then you’d come to the same conclusion. I can’t say that I keep track of who is an alt or not. I would suggest that you take your copper hat off (because tinfoil doesn’t block signals to the aliens) and realize that new players do, in fact, come for the massive battles. To answer your question; Yes, CCP does market eve still. When you log into eve, do you see people mining on the launcher, or shooting another ship? I’d say that you’ve been paying less attention to this topic than you have been trying to assist people. For that, i applaud you. I only comment every now and then, when i tab over from fleet and see people not getting answers. I’d like to link my old threads pertaining to some of the rookie issues i’ve made, but they’re closed from inactivity on the thread. I simply don’t make enough threads, or respond to them after people start getting nasty. It’s funny that you claim I’m lying, but also say that anyone who talks about the big battles are just alts. Either people talk about them or they don’t. You decide, as apparently everything I type is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/42 "2020-02-25T00:05:03Z")
The massive success of the other mmo’s that have already done it is the proof of concept. Did you think they create catch-up content for no reason? When someone new comes in and sees a ship they like and want to get into finds out how long it’ll take to get into it, they either stay and do it, or they quit. Fewer than half remain to do that grind. If it were easier to get into the ships, that number would rise. Plenty of other MMO’s have done it and saw the benefits from it, so that it’s now an industry standard. Except for ccp. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/43 "2020-02-25T00:07:22Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > The massive success of the other mmo’s that have already done it is the proof of concept. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that all of these MMOs are identical and that changes in one MMORPG will give the exact same success in this MMORPG? ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/44 "2020-02-25T00:08:11Z")
You’ll never sell the idea without giving something to the other side. What do veteran players, who went years without automatic skill queue, injectors, or PLEX, and actually had to train skills for years, get out of it? My bet would be nothing… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/45 "2020-02-25T00:11:57Z")
Your bet is incorrect, as they would not only get to see this wonderful game continue into the next decade, but their alts would benefit from the changes too. Please, find me someone that specifically states that they like how slowly their alts train. I’ll wait. Not only that, but they retain the years of experience, both in game mechanics and in the history of eve. The more important question would be what do veteran players lose from these suggestions? The answer is Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/46 "2020-02-25T00:15:34Z")
Sorry, but your idea is the video game equivalent of welfare, or better yet, reparations. The new players gain everything, while the veterans seemingly lose nothing, yet don’t gain anything either. And if you give the veteran players anything like ISK or SP in exchange for this, then they will be even farther ahead than they already are, thus defeating the entire purpose of your proposed change. Long story short, only one side can benefit in order to make it “equal” or “fair”… And alts aren’t new players… ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/47 "2020-02-25T00:16:42Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > The more important question would be what do veteran players lose from these suggestions? The answer is Nothing. If that’s the answer you came up with, then you are as short sighted as everything you’ve said would suggest. We can start with exploitation by using alts. How’d you like to address that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/48 "2020-02-25T00:19:47Z")
That is because you’re short sighted. You apparently do not see the benefit of enough new, subscribing players coming to and staying with this game. CCP is a business, like any other game company. Without increasing profits, they will find it hard to maintain what they have. Game companies with 5 times as many players as this one die out from stagnation. Many of them choose to come up with a new version of the same thing, like activision does. Without incentive to come to an old, dinosaur of a game like this, EvE will go the way that Everquest did. It’ll go where Dark Age of Camelot did. It’ll go where Shadowbane did. I could keep listing them, but you should get the point. Resistance to change and to new player benefits kills games. Pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/49 "2020-02-25T00:21:51Z")
CCP promotes the use of alts. Do you mean using fast tracking alts to make injectors? I fail to see a problem there. The price would drop, people would gain more skill points. That might hurt people that make alt account for extraction purposes, but at the same time, not really. They’d benefit from more injectors being made and sold. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/50 "2020-02-25T00:24:47Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > Do you mean using fast tracking alts to make injectors? I fail to see a problem there. The price would drop, people would gain more skill points. > That might hurt people that make alt account for extraction purposes, but at the same time, not really. They’d benefit from more injectors being made and sold. No. I asked you to address the potential exploitation by veteran players based on your proposed changes. I didn’t ask you to come up with something unrelated and address the unrelated thing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/51 "2020-02-25T00:25:22Z")
Then point out what exploitation you mean. This is the internet, and I am not psychic. Use your words. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/52 "2020-02-25T00:28:15Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > Then point out what exploitation you mean. I’ll give you one chance. Whatever boosts and “catch up” mechanics you provide to new players can be abused by veteran players who use alts to take advantage of those mechanics to skill alt characters rapidly. You may see people using these to rapidly boost their alt characters into additional Rorquals or Exhumers. Rapidly boosting them to set up multiple PI farms. And rapildly boosting them to create SP extraction farming alts. How are you going to prevent your proposed system from being abused in this manner? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/53 "2020-02-25T00:33:28Z")
I do not see any of that as exploitation of my proposed changes. CCP is already addressing mining issues, and there is a finite amount of ore in the galaxy. If anything, veteran players using these changes would help create more conflict. As for PI farms, I think a lot of people would enjoy that, as it would mean more production, which means lower costs. I already addressed sp extraction. As I already stated, CCP encourages alts. Did you not see the recent reduction in omega price for alt accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/54 "2020-02-25T00:34:25Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > You may see people using these to rapidly boost their alt characters into additional Rorquals or Exhumers. Rapidly boosting them to set up multiple PI farms. And rapildly boosting them to create SP extraction farming alts. Malcanis’ law, always. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/55 "2020-02-25T00:34:27Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > I do not see any of that as exploitation of my proposed changes. This is enough to show me that your idea is terrible and that you have not put in even an ounce of worthwhile thought. Thanks for making that obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/56 "2020-02-25T00:34:43Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > Eve made the news primarily for the massive player engagements. Eve was unique back then. It isnt now. > The only way to encourage the same type of massive engagements that eve made the news with is to get people in that are willing to risk a lot. veteran players, for all their wealth, seem to resent risk. The first sentence I agree with. The second I don’t. The mechanics don’t encourage large fights anymore, to the same extent they used to. Take Citadels and moon mining as a replacement for POS for example. Under the old POS system there was a natural limit on the number that could be anchored. That natural limit helped the tension around good moons (R32 and R64 particularly) because a fight could happen over a moon and sov, and it could be won and taken within reason. Now, there is no limit on Citadels so any system that has a good moon can be littered with Upwell structures that make it cancer to take sov in null. In lowsec, the active moon mining has killed all large scale conflict over moons all together. The mechanics have become cancer and people want to enjoy playing a game, not die inside from it. There are other examples. That’s where CCP has to take full responsibility. Game design has been poor and the community support for the game has diminished as a result. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/57 "2020-02-25T00:39:11Z")
You’re right. If they wanted. The current culture i one that views risk as an insult. That is the very reason I suggest changes that would keep new players. Younger players view video game risk less seriously than the aging community that eve currently consists of. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/58 "2020-02-25T00:40:23Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > That is the very reason I suggest changes that would keep new players. AGAIN. You still have not shown any proof that anything you have said will actually help keep new players. Where is the proof? I can say “Banning The Charon for making shitty ideas will help retain new players”. Which has the same amount of proof as your idea, i.e. none. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Charon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_charon/32/187468_2.png) [@The\_Charon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Charon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/59 "2020-02-25T00:43:43Z")
AGAIN. I reference the video game industry standard of introducing a catch-up mechanic into older games. They seem to do pretty well. I’ll point out the game eve players love to hate; World of Warcraft. They have millions of subscribers, and have had since the inception of the game. They hemorrhage more players every year than eve has had in a decade. Yet, they continue to get new players, and to keep the community they have because they have catch-up mechanics for new players to get into end game raiding. I know, i know, insert blizzard/wow hate now. Piss on a tree for all that’s worth, the point remains valid. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930/60 "2020-02-25T00:44:34Z")
> [@The\_Charon](#): > > I reference the video game industry standard of introducing a catch-up mechanic into older games. They seem to do pretty well. I’ll point out the game eve players love to hate; World of Warcraft. Since you seem to love dodging the question. Let me quote myself when I first raised the issue: > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Are you saying that all of these MMOs are identical and that changes in one MMORPG will give the exact same success in this MMORPG? Just because some change worked in another game, does not mean it’ll work here. Can you show us any proof why it will work here? Or why your ideas are even the same thing? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-for-new-player-acquisition-and-retention/221930.md?page=4)