# Suggestion to helping new players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994 "2019-07-01T14:43:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/81 "2019-07-01T22:33:47Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > Geez, some people just love to argue. I don’t think I’m arguing in either of those posts. Just taking the logic you outlined, through to what the outcomes mean. Now, however for a more serious argument to counter what you’ve written: The whole game is balanced around both PVP and PVE. One without the other can’t exist for long. Ship loss is needed to drive demand for ship manufacture. Capsule loss helps drive the need for implants, which provides pathways to profit for mission runners converting LP. Manufacture is needed to keep costs under control and replace losses. All aspects of the game form the complete game and no aspect is any worse than any other. Shooting ships, in a ship shooting game is not only just pvp (and not griefing), it actually helps pve’ers as well, by creating demand for the raw materials and manufactured goods. From looters and salvagers who recycle meta modules and build rigs, through to capital ship manufacturers, everyone relies on everyone else along the whole production → destruction chain. So no, ganking isn’t griefing, it’s just another integral part of the game. What is weak however, is people who when faced with loss, think that it isn’t something they could have done differently, but is the fault of someone else. Externalising blame to think someone else is a griefer, instead of accepting that the loss is our own fault - yeah that’s one of the things this game doesn’t need at all. ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/82 "2019-07-01T22:36:17Z")
I don’t deny any of your logic I simply want to educate the newbie into what to expect. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/83 "2019-07-01T22:40:09Z")
The question is more if you prioritise not engaging other players, are you equipped to teach them the best ways to do so without knowing current PvP metas? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/84 "2019-07-01T22:40:23Z")
Like the guy in the other thread who said the newbies don’t always know they are being victimized. We need to educate them on how to know when they are being victimized. Like Victim Outreach Program for newbies. “Show me on the model where the bad PvPer shot your ship” ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/85 "2019-07-01T22:43:13Z")
I do no such thing. I simply answer their questions and show them ways I play and make ISK. If they want to PvP or talk to others on how to PvP that up to them, because I am not a PvP player. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/86 "2019-07-01T22:46:36Z")
Oh ok. I thought keeping them safe would be a duty of care for a mentor. ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/87 "2019-07-01T22:47:40Z")
Another toon who is spoiling for a fight and I’ll bet all you are good at is PvP ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/88 "2019-07-01T22:50:21Z")
No Im totally useless tbh. Check my kill board. But I know how to avoid it by learning how it works. Knowing is half the battle. GI JOOOOOOOE ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/89 "2019-07-01T22:51:10Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > and I’ll bet all you are good at is PvP Is all you’re good at passive aggressiveness? ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/90 "2019-07-01T23:02:35Z")
Yep!! ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/91 "2019-07-01T23:06:11Z")
He’s a pretty good liar too. He claimed he doesn’t PvP until we posted the KB for the character he just bought. Then he claimed that was not PvP. ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/92 "2019-07-01T23:08:53Z")
LOL, I never said I didn’t PvP. I said I don’t like it. I tried a long time ago and didn’t like it. I don’t appreciate being called a liar, but I know thats the only way you know how to converse is to insult someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/93 "2019-07-01T23:15:56Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > LOL LOL it was funny or LOL caught again? ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/94 "2019-07-01T23:16:42Z")
LOL because your own killboard is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/95 "2019-07-01T23:18:47Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > the only way you know how to converse is to insult someone else > [@theUbermann](#): > > LOL because your own killboard is a joke. Now that is funny! 😜 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/96 "2019-07-01T23:22:12Z")
Oh, are at the point where everyone starts examining killboards. Funny thing about killboards, they don’t show the PVP which didn’t result in a loss due to the prey knowing how to get out of a sticky situation. ---
**Author:** ![theUbermann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theubermann/32/138512_2.png) [@theUbermann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/theUbermann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/97 "2019-07-01T23:24:17Z")
This thread has gone so far out from what I intended. From discussing a mentor system to trading insults so I am out. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/98 "2019-07-01T23:33:45Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > This thread has gone so far out from what I intended. To be fair, this is pretty much exactly what your idea would have resulted in. People insulting other mentors, talking smack about killboards and whether someone is “good enough” to be a mentor, etc. Edit: Going through the thread it seems like you were one of the biggest offenders who caused the thread to spiral out of control by taking things too personally and lashing out at others. Might wanna work on that before you go around proposing ideas on how people should mentor newbros, lead by example and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Ellison\_Onizuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ellison_onizuka/32/314780_2.png) [@Ellison\_Onizuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ellison_Onizuka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/99 "2019-07-02T03:00:03Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > But I don’t grief anyone, and not all ships are PvP, some are indy some are mining and some are indy and logistics. None of this is PvP Every time you list something lower than my sell price in Jita you grief me. ---
**Author:** ![Loutro\_Fift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loutro_fift/32/195473_2.png) [@Loutro\_Fift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loutro_Fift)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994/100 "2019-07-02T04:55:00Z")
> [@theUbermann](#): > > This thread has gone so far out from what I intended. From discussing a mentor system to trading insults so I am out. It’s pride week, we welcome you coming out [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suggestion-to-helping-new-players/170994.md?page=6)