# Suicide ganking balance **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 26, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028 "2018-10-26T14:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/84 "2018-10-31T23:13:32Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Notice all the people that threatened to quit over ECM are still playing…lol It’s now possible to play whilst unsubbed. I’m down to alpha till i see where the new management is taking us. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/85 "2018-10-31T23:14:20Z")
Players that are killed unlawfully stick around longer. I thought everyone understood that by now. Thats the real dirty secret. The subs only dropped after ganking and wardec nerfs. And despite all the further nerfs to ‘nasty pvp’ subs have never gone back to pre-crime watch level. They just keep going down. Go figure ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/86 "2018-10-31T23:28:03Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I’m down to alpha Still playing then. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/87 "2018-10-31T23:31:02Z")
Yeah I’m not fussed about ecm changes at the moment. Like wardecs its a partial change. But I’m just pointing out that the people who were whining about ecm may very well have unsubbed. But they can still log in and they can still use the forums. Doesn’t mean it’s healthy for the company though. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/88 "2018-10-31T23:32:14Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Yeah Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/89 "2018-11-01T18:34:30Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Notice all the people that threatened to quit over ECM are still playing…lol That’s not really a good comparison. ECM is a balance change that people are raging over, but doesn’t attack the core identity of EVE. Remove ECM entirely and EVE would still be EVE. Nerfing/removing suicide ganking (at least to the degree that the OP suggests will happen if we don’t all agree to their proposed nerf) to appease whiny carebears would be an attack on the core philosophy of EVE, trading the always-at-risk sandbox for a designated safe space where PvP doesn’t exist. And EVE sure as hell hasn’t survived a difficult market for 15+ years because of its fascinating PvE content… ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/90 "2018-11-01T20:14:17Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Nerfing/removing suicide ganking With the 2007 HP buff people said it would kill the game. With the exhumer hp buff people said it would kill the game. When insurance was removed from concorded ships people said it would kill the game. People still play. Ganking was buffed with the release of Upwell Stuctures. Maybe if suicide ganking were more costly there would be balance enough those carebears (who pay to play like everyone else) would be more appeased than they are now with a bunch of asshats telling them they are carebears and getting topics locked in hopes of keeping status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/91 "2018-11-01T20:35:04Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > With the 2007 HP buff people said it would kill the game. > With the exhumer hp buff people said it would kill the game. > When insurance was removed from concorded ships people said it would kill the game. There’s a huge difference between slight adjustments to the mechanic and the OP’s threat of “accept my idea before CCP kills it completely”. > Ganking was buffed with the release of Upwell Stuctures. Maybe if suicide ganking were more costly there would be balance enough those carebears (who pay to play like everyone else) would be more appeased than they are now with a bunch of asshats telling them they are carebears and getting topics locked in hopes of keeping status quo. What more do pathetic carebears need? It’s already virtually impossible to be suicide ganked unless you are an idiot, so why do we need to listen to the “concerns” of people who feel entitled to autopilot around in un-tanked ships crammed full of as much ISK as possible? The solution is for people to stop being bad at EVE, not for CCP to pander to an obnoxious minority that wants EVE to be a PvE theme park instead of a PvP-driven sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/92 "2018-11-01T21:07:15Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s already virtually impossible to be suicide ganked unless you are an idiot, Calling everyone person in the game that moves around in high sec including yourself an idiot? Well that’s not very nice. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > What more do pathetic carebears need? Less players like you calling the majority of everyone in the game an idiot. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > so why do we need to listen to the “concerns” of people There is more of them than there are of you. Why should they listen to you? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > not for CCP to pander to an obnoxious minority Those “carebears” are the Majority and they are not trying to inflict their will on you. Gankers are inflicting their will on the “carebears” Inflicting your will on people so they explode and lose stuff is more obnoxious than the guy that just wants to move some stuff from point A to point B. If you want “carebears” to stop being obnoxious then maybe you and people who think like you should stop being obnoxious to them. I never heard of a carebear coming on the forums and whining about not getting ganked ever while doing what he wanted. No that doesn’t start until they are ganked. So one person started the ■■■■ with ganking and now is whining that people don’t like it. Stop whining. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/93 "2018-11-01T21:12:35Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Calling everyone person in the game that moves around in high sec including yourself an idiot? Nice demonstration of your lack of understanding of game mechanics. I’ve been suicide ganked exactly once in my entire 10+ year EVE career, across all of my accounts. I was autopiloting with such a low value cargo that I can only assume that the attacker accidentally locked the wrong target. Unlike you I understand how to keep ship value below the point where it is a profitable gank target, and fly smart even when in “safe” space. > Inflicting your will on people so they explode and lose stuff is more obnoxious than the guy that just wants to move some stuff from point A to point B. Congratulations on not understanding the purpose of EVE. The whole point of EVE is for everyone to kill each other and for stuff to explode. If you “just want to move stuff” go back to WoW because EVE is clearly not the game for you. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/94 "2018-11-01T21:15:02Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > With the exhumer hp buff people said it would kill the game. > When insurance was removed from concorded ships people said it would kill the game. I don’t know about 2007 but that’s not what people said for these two. They said it would adversely affect the amount of people ganking, and it did. Miner ganking is far lower than it used to be. Shortly after the barge hp buff subs started going down. Hmmm 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/95 "2018-11-01T21:26:58Z")
Ganking is all about CONCORD response time, but how about a docking response time? The time it takes for a station to verify docking access could increase with a negative sec. status. Meaning, between the time of “docking permission requested” and “docking permission granted” could one insert a delay of up to 5 seconds. The same could be added to gate jumps. This doesn’t do much on it’s own, but if others truly want to go after players with a negative sec status then this would give them an advantage. Otherwise do I not see how ganking could ever receive a change. It needs the actions of others and not that of CCP to begin with, and any problem in-game should get resolved by players on their own. When this doesn’t happen then how can there be a problem? ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/96 "2018-11-01T21:30:34Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’ve been suicide ganked > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s already virtually impossible to be suicide ganked unless you are an idiot, You said it. lol > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > The whole point of EVE is for everyone to kill each other and for stuff to explode. Explain why npcs exist and the server isn’t reset weekly or monthly. You know…like Rust where that is actually the point of the game. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Miner ganking is far lower than it used to be. That couldn’t have anything to do with the greatly reduced number of belts could it? I mean there were usually at least 10+ belts in every system always full of rocks. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > They said it would adversely affect the amount of people ganking, And people threatened to quit. I was there. Daichi Yamato Center for Advanced Studies 2010.09.17 12:08 You weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/97 "2018-11-01T21:34:19Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > That couldn’t have anything to do with the greatly reduced number of belts could it? > I mean there were usually at least 10+ belts in every system always full of rocks. 🤔 Compared to the ore anoms and moon belts we have now. I don’t even remember the belts being changed except jita. > [@techzer0](#): > > And people threatened to quit. > I was there. Not when barges had their ehp buffed. That was 2012. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/98 "2018-11-01T21:43:12Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > You said it. lol Yes, I said it. I said it’s _virtually_ impossible. One successful suicide gank, in a situation that cost me effectively nothing because the cargo value was so low, out of 10+ years playing the game and countless billions of assets moved sure fits the definition of “virtually impossible”. If you are smart then suicide ganking will have a negligible effect on you. The vast majority of suicide ganks happen because the player was stupid and/or lazy and allowed it to happen. > Explain why npcs exist and the server isn’t reset weekly or monthly. You know…like Rust where that is actually the point of the game. NPCs exist as a resource to farm, with the expectation that the resources you get will eventually go into PvP activities. Playing EVE purely as a PvE game is boring as hell and missing 95% of the game. If you want a PvE game there are much better options where the PvE is deeper and more interesting. EVE is not that game. The server is not reset because long-term building (such as alliances with thousands of members claiming vast regions of space) is a core of EVE’s design philosophy. Being a PvP game with player-driven conflict does not require it to be an arena-style game with regular resets. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/99 "2018-11-01T21:53:41Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Playing EVE purely as a PvE game is boring as hell and missing 95% of the game. And their choice. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Not when barges had their ehp buffed. That was 2012. People threatened to quit over this as well. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you. I could say the same. When I say it, it will be true. Forgot about this Gem. > **[Barge Fairy Tale - EVE General Discussion - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/1698538/#post1698538)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/100 "2018-11-01T22:35:19Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > And their choice. It is their choice. However, their choice should not be permitted to come at the expense of the core of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/101 "2018-11-01T22:36:52Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Forgot about this Gem. > [Barge Fairy Tale - EVE General Discussion - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/1698538/#post1698538) What about it? Suicide ganking _isn’t_ profitable against smart players. Only stupid players can be profitably suicide ganked, and you don’t balance the game around players who are too stupid to make obvious correct decisions. It’s like insisting that self destructing needs to be nerfed because it’s possible to fill a freighter with PLEX and then self destruct it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/102 "2018-11-01T22:44:34Z")
So who threatened to quit and didn’t? And you think you did something clever there, but you forgot that suicide ganking was never designed at all. It was emergent behaviour. Furthermore, it’s not ccp that determines how profitable or unprofitable ganking is. That’s entirely up to the numpties hauling items. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/103 "2018-11-01T23:52:01Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Furthermore, it’s not ccp that determines how profitable or unprofitable ganking is. That’s entirely up to the numpties hauling items. It is CCP that determines if suicide ganking should be used to make profit or used to kill players that piss you off at great expense. More than haulers get suicide ganked. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So who threatened to quit and didn’t? You want a list? pass. Go look for yourself. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > What about it? Ganking was never meant to be profitable. Not my words. It is profitable. So time to look at it again. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It is their choice. Yep. I already said that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028.md?page=5)