# Suicide ganking balance **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [October 26, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028 "2018-10-26T14:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/104 "2018-11-01T23:56:36Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > It is CCP that determines if suicide ganking should be used to make profit or used to kill players that piss you off at great expense. > More than haulers get suicide ganked. How would they decide that? Honestly, what mechanic would they use to design ganking as profitable or unprofitable? > [@techzer0](#): > > You want a list? Name one. > [@techzer0](#): > > Ganking was never meant to be profitable. Not my words. > It is profitable. So time to look at it again. Local was never designed as intel. Time to look at it again? Mining was never designed to be done with jet cans. Time to look at it again? Level 4 missions weren’t designed to be run solo. Time to look at it again? Wormholes weren’t designed to be lived in. Time to look at it again? Techzer0: _emergent gameplay is bad. Grrrrr._ ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/105 "2018-11-02T00:03:01Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > How would they decide that? Not my problem. Get back to me when I am a dev. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Name one. I am not digging through thousands of posts in hundreds of old topics. You know I am right. People threaten to quit over things they don’t like all the time. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Local was never designed as intel. Time to look at it again? I agree. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Mining was never designed to be done with jet cans. Time to look at it again? Isn’t that why the Orca and Porpoise have bonuses for mining with jet can miners? Guess they did look at it again. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Level 4 missions weren’t designed to be run solo. Time to look at it again? Yes that would be nice. Level 5s too. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Wormholes weren’t designed to be lived in. Time to look at it again? Sounds good to me. I don’t care either way. Daichi Yamato: I like exploiting games for my fun and running off new and old players that don’t want to play with me. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/106 "2018-11-02T00:08:22Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Not my problem. > Get back to me when I am a dev. So they can’t. Cool. > [@techzer0](#): > > I am not digging through thousands of posts in hundreds of old topics. > You know I am right. People threaten to quit over things they don’t like all the time So no one. Cool. Yeah usually ganking and wardecs. > [@techzer0](#): > > Isn’t that why the Orca and Porpoise have bonuses for mining with jet can miners? Guess they did look at it again. Indeed. The mud is brown because the sky is blue. > [@techzer0](#): > > Daichi Yamato: I like exploiting games for my fun and running off new and old players that don’t want to play with me. I don’t gank. In fact i get ganked. I don’t wardec. In fact i get wardecced. I don’t afk cloak. In fact they try to afk cloak me. GG. Easy. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/107 "2018-11-02T00:14:57Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So they can’t. Cool. Sure they can. Do you honestly believe that because I personally don’t know that also means CCP devs can’t fix something. You might be retarded. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So no one. Cool. > Yeah usually ganking and wardecs. The absence of proof is not proof of absence. It must hurt knowing I am right…again. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Indeed. The mud is brown because the sky is blue. It seems like you are just trying to get this topic locked because you don’t like it. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I don’t gank. In fact i get ganked. > I don’t wardec. In fact i get wardecced. > I don’t afk cloak. In fact they try to afk cloak me. I have ganked. I have never been ganked. I have been wardecced. I have wardecced. I have AFK cloaked. I have been in system with them. Pretty sure you’re trolling now. You can move along. Maybe have a chat with your self confessed idiot friend that has things in common with you. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s already virtually impossible to be suicide ganked unless you are an idiot > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’ve been suicide ganked ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/108 "2018-11-02T00:46:18Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Do you honestly believe that because I personally don’t know that also means CCP devs can’t fix something. You don’t know. I don’t know. No one knows. We do know though that ccp could remove ganking tomorrow with a push of a button but don’t. They could even make the damage done during a gank a fraction of what it is in more typical pvp. But that still wouldn’t make ganking unprofitable. I could still fill a freighter with t2 salvage and fit anti-tank mods. > [@techzer0](#): > > The absence of proof is not proof of absence. > It must hurt knowing I am right…again. I wasn’t trying to prove anything. You were… > [@techzer0](#): > > It seems like you are just trying to get this topic locked because you don’t like it. Loving this topic. Just wanted to join in comparing things that aren’t related. Like jet can mining and the bonuses of industrial command ships. > [@techzer0](#): > > I have ganked. I have never been ganked. > I have been wardecced. I have wardecced. > I have AFK cloaked. I have been in system with them. Cool story bro. Didn’t try to suggest otherwise. I have also been ganked. I most certainly was being an idiot. Take a look. Won’t take long. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/109 "2018-11-02T05:40:41Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Do you honestly believe that because I personally don’t know that also means CCP devs can’t fix something. It does because you’re missing the reason why they can’t fix it: because the only reason suicide ganking is profitable is the abundance of stupid players letting themselves get ganked. You can’t fix stupidity with game mechanics, no matter how expensive you make suicide ganking idiots will still put that much ISK in their cargo and autopilot through dangerous systems. As for your quote of a supposed contradiction, you do know the difference between “impossible” and “virtually impossible”, right? One low-value suicide gank out of 10+ years and billions of ISK worth of cargo moved is a pretty good approximation of “virtually impossible”. Yay, good job suicide gankers, you killed an autopiloting transport hauling a couple of expendable tackle interceptors that I bought because I didn’t give a \*\*\*\* if they were destroyed. Too bad you missed all the haulers that actually mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/110 "2018-11-02T08:00:02Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It does because you’re missing the reason why they can’t fix it: because the only reason suicide ganking is profitable is the abundance of stupid players letting themselves get ganked. You can’t fix stupidity with game mechanics, no matter how expensive you make suicide ganking idiots will still put that much ISK in their cargo and autopilot through dangerous systems. Sure it can be fixed! Cut down all cargoholds of all industrials,transport-ships and freighters by 50-75%. There. Ganking is no longer profitable as you cannot fit enough stuff in the ship to make it profitable. ---
**Author:** ![BIade\_Runner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/biade_runner/32/143170_2.png) [@BIade\_Runner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BIade_Runner)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/111 "2018-11-02T08:31:09Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Yes, I said it. I said it’s _virtually_ impossible. Cognitive dissonances… you _virtually_ live on them… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/112 "2018-11-02T12:05:46Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > Broken Secstatus doesn’t have harsh consequences compared to it’s bigger brother: FactionStanding. No consequences, huh? I have personally seen cases were CODE. agents couldn’t undock in ship because facpol would instantly scram him… no consequences at all except being free to shoot at by anyone and facpol chasing you wherever you go. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/113 "2018-11-02T12:10:24Z")
> [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > Many of the kills are either empty JF or have a cargo value under 2-3 billions, who don’t economically justify the loss of 25 fully tech 2 fitted Talos in the process of suicide ganking… You [redacted], you are moving goal posts! Now you are talking about jump freighters… same way as with blockade runner - kill it asap. You don’t have time to check cargo, it (the ship) can be gone at any point in time. So policy is to shoot first check later. They TEND to have nice cargo but empty ones happen as well. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/114 "2018-11-02T12:27:27Z")
> [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > Cognitive dissonances… you _virtually_ live on them… 🙄 Don’t have arguments left. Only thing you can do is ■■■■ post. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/115 "2018-11-02T15:32:13Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It does because Nothing you say matters. You already said you’re an idiot. So why should anyone care what you type? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s already virtually impossible to be suicide ganked unless you are an idiot > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’ve been suicide ganked > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Don’t have arguments left. Only thing you can do is ■■■■ post. All the arguments have been made. Player retention and player growth are the new theme. So what has been ignored in the past will now see the light of day. Evidence exists that CCP agrees. CCP Guard telling people to stop bumping. CCP Soundwave saying ganking was never meant to be profitable. > [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > Cut down all cargoholds of all industrials,transport-ships and freighters by 50-75%. And what about the battleships/cruiser/frigates that are so often ganked? You want to cut down the number of slots? The cargo holds? What? Your cargo hold argument just got wrecked. > [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > Cognitive dissonances… you _virtually_ live on them… 🙄 [http://lmgtfy.com/?q=virtually+impossible](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=virtually+impossible) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/116 "2018-11-02T15:54:34Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Player retention and player growth are the new theme. New theme? > **[CCP Proves the New Order Was Right about Ganking and New Players](http://www.minerbumping.com/2015/03/ccp-proves-new-order-was-right-about.html?m=1)** > > Since the dawn of a few years ago, CCP has engaged in an unrelenting campaign to nerf highsec aggression. They believed that by making high... ---
**Author:** ![Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakura_hoshizora/32/207431_2.png) [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakura_Hoshizora)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/117 "2018-11-02T16:41:14Z")
Except that according to the last CSM minutes that is no longer true. Maybe it was in 2015, but not in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/118 "2018-11-02T17:21:49Z")
> [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > Maybe it was in 2015, but not in 2018. So upcoming wardec changes have nothing to do with player retention or growth? k… > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > New theme? Yeah. A repeated theme is made new again. Like the new Crimson Harvest event of 2018. Are you under the impression once something happens years ago it can’t be new again? Poor fellow. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/119 "2018-11-02T17:49:44Z")
You should probably read the csm minutes again. > [@techzer0](#): > > Yeah. A repeated theme is made new again. > Like the new Crimson Harvest event of 2018. > Are you under the impression once something happens years ago it can’t be new again? > Poor fellow. No I’m under the impression that the theme never stopped being about retention. Thats why they’ve redone the npe, _again_. That’s why they wanted to do the community fittings project. And Alphas were hugely upgraded. At some point between 2015 and today did you think ccp thought ‘we don’t care about retention anymore. Let’s try the other thing.’? 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/120 "2018-11-02T18:35:35Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > At some point between 2015 and today did you think ccp thought ‘we don’t care about retention anymore. Let’s try the other thing.’? Nope. I think they thought “This isn’t working. Lets try something **new**.” ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/121 "2018-11-02T18:40:16Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > Nothing you say matters. You already said you’re an idiot. So why should anyone care what you type? I see you won’t let go of your failure to understand the difference between “impossible” and “virtually impossible”, and are going to defend that failure to the death. > Player retention and player growth are the new theme. > So what has been ignored in the past will now see the light of day. Removing suicide ganking would be bad for player retention. People stay in EVE because it’s a PvP sandbox with scamming/suicide ganking/etc, the only game on the market to allow that kind of freedom. Take away the things that make EVE unique and you’re left with a bad PvE game that is unlikely to survive. > CCP Soundwave saying ganking was never meant to be profitable. Suicide ganking against smart players is not profitable. It only becomes profitable against stupid players who put excess value in fragile ships and fly obliviously into dangerous space. You can’t fix player stupidity with game mechanics, nor should you make balance decisions based on that stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![techzer0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/techzer0/32/101314_2.png) [@techzer0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/techzer0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/122 "2018-11-02T18:42:59Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It only becomes profitable against stupid players > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Only stupid players can be profitably suicide ganked, > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’ve been suicide ganked You’re virtually an idiot and are stupid then. k. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028/123 "2018-11-02T18:50:59Z")
> [@techzer0](#): > > You’re virtually an idiot and are stupid then. k. Oh FFS. Why is this hard for you to understand? Profitable suicide ganking is _virtually_ impossible against smart players. That’s why I have been suicide ganked exactly once, out of countless billions of ISK worth of cargo hauled through highsec, and it was such a cheap cargo that I didn’t care one bit (and I can’t imagine the attacker made any money from that kill). A 0.000000001% loss rate to suicide ganking is effectively zero. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-ganking-balance/116028.md?page=6)