# Suicide in highsec, senseless and merciless **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [April 26, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409 "2025-04-26T16:17:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/142 "2025-04-29T15:39:11Z")
You go outside and see a guy in an expensive car. Do you think it’s a bad idea that the car is vandal-proof? What amazingly warped thinking. I’m glad you know exactly what the purpose of a game is, which is a sandbox in which players can do whatever they want. However, I will soon leave this topic, as unmotivated insults begin towards a person who does not think like them, who thinks outside the box. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/143 "2025-04-29T15:40:49Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > You go outside and see a guy in an expensive car. Do you think it’s a bad idea that the car is vandal-proof? What car is vandal proof? Did we suddenly transfer into the transformer universe? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/144 "2025-04-29T16:06:11Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > You go outside and see a guy in an expensive car. Do you think it’s a bad idea that the car is vandal-proof? What amazingly warped thinking. I’m glad you know exactly what the purpose of a game is, which is a sandbox in which players can do whatever they want. However, I will soon leave this topic, as unmotivated insults begin towards a person who does not think like them, who thinks outside the box. If real life was a competitive game about vandalizing cars then yes, I would think it’s a bad idea that some cars are vandal-proof. But that’s a silly example, because EVE is not real life and in real life it’s unethical to vandalize other people’s property, unlike in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/145 "2025-04-29T16:17:49Z")
I’m glad you know exactly what the purpose of a game is, which is a sandbox in which players can do whatever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Vexxor\_Aivo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vexxor_aivo/32/442061_2.png) [@Vexxor\_Aivo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vexxor_Aivo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/146 "2025-04-29T18:55:21Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Look. I am highsec ganker in game. But that does not make me bad person, a psychopath It does though. sooo yeahhhh ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/147 "2025-04-29T19:05:13Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > You’re repeating yourself. Don’t tie ship destruction to suicide attacks in highsec. Players can lose ships for other reasons, and for the same reasons in more dangerous places. The economy requires players to go beyond highsec. The logistics business will be hampered, but not completely destroyed, since cargo will need to be transported through dangerous sectors. That’s where the chance of losing a ship is highest. We know what will happen though, because EVE Echoes exists, which has what you want. We can see how different the market is. You are the one being unreasonable by thinking that somehow things would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/148 "2025-04-29T23:14:50Z")
You’ve raised an interesting ethical issue. Yes, there are some things, that are not normal about this situation. But what exactly? Is it that people are cursing you? Or is it what you’re doing? I think, that’s an oversimplification. It’s the situation, that the game is creating, that’s not normal. That’s what makes EVE unique. Is it good for the players and for the game? I think, it is bad. That’s the short answer. More can be said and examples can be given. For example, the executioner is just doing his job, but for some reason people don’t like him. But I don’t want to discuss this with you, because your message contains an unethical attack on me, a person you don’t know and can’t even imagine. I can only note, that the problems of ethics concern not only life situations, but also computer games. You definitely have problems with ethics, if you do not feel the pain you cause. This is the same kind of professional deformation, as a surgeon, who performs many operations. At some point, human feelings become dull. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/149 "2025-04-30T00:28:54Z")
Stop comparing to RL. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/150 "2025-04-30T00:42:45Z")
You are speaking to a person who writes in another language and then translates his text. Therefore, if possible, avoid abbreviations that are familiar to you. It took me a long time to figure out what you meant. At first I thought you were talking about the “raid leader”. Secondly, I don’t like simple answers to complex questions. Ethical questions are some of the most complex in philosophy, if you have heard of such a science. Thirdly, do not make short, unsubstantiated comments; I will not respond to them. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/151 "2025-04-30T00:52:04Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > Thirdly, do not make short, unsubstantiated comments; I will not respond to them You just did… ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/152 "2025-04-30T02:38:47Z")
instead of suffering from translation issues, if your native language is supported on the forums, post there. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 8:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/153 "2025-04-30T08:01:28Z")
And I forgot to mention one more thing. If you like killing someone in highsec, then someone has to act as your victim. Otherwise, you won’t get any pleasure from your activity. It turns out that there is a group of players who are doomed to suffer in advance, without receiving anything in return. This is called game discrimination. Imagine that there are only people like you left in the game. You will start killing each other without getting any profit or pleasure. In the end, there should be only one left. Again, there are different reasons why people don’t want to engage in PvP fights. For example, a person has a weak computer or bad internet. He inevitably loses because of lags. Or his skills are poorly developed, since he is a beginner. He cannot board an expensive ship. He may simply have little time for the game. But if you meet him in real life, he will easily beat you in any kind of martial arts. It turns out that you are realizing yourself in the game in a not entirely fair way, performing in a different weight class. In this regard, EVE is not balanced at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/154 "2025-04-30T09:39:42Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > Imagine that there are only people like you left in the game. You will start killing each other without getting any profit or pleasure. In the end, there should be only one left. Here you make the wrong assumption that people who lose fights leave the game. Most of us know that ship loss is a part of this game and have lost multiple ships yet are still playing. To bring chess into it again, would you quit the game if one of your pieces is taken? Would you quit playing chess if you have lost a match? If you like the game you just try again. You may even win the next game! Of course some people may decide after a few lost chess matches that it is not their game, and quit playing chess. Likewise it’s not unthinkable that some players decide to quit playing EVE after losing a ship because they don’t enjoy the game. But the majority of EVE players has lost ships, yet did stick around. Why? Because these players enjoy the game and have realized that **occasional ship loss is just part of the game.** We’re all killing each other and _like it_. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichelle\_Geniale](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichelle_geniale/32/450875_2.png) [@DeMichelle\_Geniale](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichelle_Geniale)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/155 "2025-04-30T09:40:13Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > But if you meet him in real life, he will easily beat you in any kind of martial arts. Wait a minute. Are you saying that the game isn’t balanced because of… **Bruce Lee**? ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/156 "2025-04-30T11:53:19Z")
There are no “victims” in EVE, like there are no “victims” in Chess. Or in Counterstrike. Or in StarCraft. It’s a goddamn PvP game you signed up for and if you lose a ship it’s like losing a pawn, a loadout or a bunch of space marines. You act like attacking other players in a PvP game is kind of an “unjust act”, but it isn’t. It is the whole purpose of the game to establish relations to other players and it is your _free choice_ if these relations should be hostile or cooperative. And _both_ of these choices are okay, they will influence the future and career you will have in this game, often for a long time. I get the feeling you don’t understand the most simple things about this game. It _isn’t meant_ to be played warm and cozy, without paying attention and just reaping rewards every now and then to “build up your char/wallet/corp”. You actually have to accept risks to get somewhere and sometimes other people take advantage of these risks. Thats not a bad thing, it is an opportunity to _learn_ and _get better at the game_. If you can’t understand that, you might have signed up for the wrong game to play? You sound like the type of guy complaining that he gets shot once the drops into a BattleRoyale Map, claiming “I just wanted to run around doing Contracts and get XP for my weapons!!! Nobody should be allowed to shoot me while doing that!!!” It’s utterly stupid. That being said: 100% safe areas are not a thing EVE needs. There are different areas in the game already, with different ways to make progress/profit and differnent risks attached. Learn how to play and listen to those whe are successful in this game instead of complaining and arguing for nonsense from a position where you can’t even see what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/157 "2025-04-30T11:54:39Z")
What random ship loss are you talking about? The ship loss I’m talking about is completely natural and is caused by the imbalance between newbies and experienced players. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/158 "2025-04-30T11:57:21Z")
Bruce Lee? No way. Everyone saw him get beat up by a stuntman in Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. You should have guessed I meant Chuck Norris. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichelle\_Geniale](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichelle_geniale/32/450875_2.png) [@DeMichelle\_Geniale](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichelle_Geniale)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/159 "2025-04-30T12:23:43Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > Bruce Lee? No way. Everyone saw him get beat up by a stuntman in Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. You should have guessed I meant Chuck Norris I think that’s your problem from the start of this thread, Paul. You refuse to look reality straight on. That Bruce Lee who was beat up by the stuntman is named Mike Moh and the stuntman is Brad Pitt. It’s just like ganking: the gankers may seem heartless and abusive but in fact they’re sweetheart good guys. Don’t let first impressions warp your judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_Keres](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/paul_keres/32/458648_2.png) [@Paul\_Keres](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Paul_Keres)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/160 "2025-04-30T12:25:17Z")
There is a manipulation of meanings in your post. You list games in which losses mean absolutely nothing. For example, in WOW, it is only insignificant money for equipment repair. In Undawn, PvP is only possible in special zones. Entering such a zone, the player is already mentally prepared for PvP. I consider an attack on inexperienced and defenseless players to be an unfair act. EVE is originally based on the principle of PvP on a bet. This bet can be quite high. Thus, not only can he be attacked almost anywhere, but he can also lose a significant part of his property. In what other game is this implemented like this? In this sense, EVE is unique. However, I have already written all this here, as well as what you are writing, others have already written before you. Don’t make me repeat myself, just read my previous posts. And don’t repeat yourself if you don’t have fresh thoughts and new examples. By the way, there are sacrifices in chess. Sometimes even a queen is sacrificed to gain an advantage. But these are not the victims I am writing about here. In EVE, new players act as fodder for old players. This role is not to everyone’s taste. I look forward to seeing examples of games that implement it this way. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409/161 "2025-04-30T12:43:54Z")
> [@Paul\_Keres](#): > > I consider There is your mistake. You signed up for the wrong game. Thank me later. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suicide-in-highsec-senseless-and-merciless/484409.md?page=9)