# Surgical Strike – Coming 15 April **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [April 7, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569 "2020-04-07T11:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1450 "2020-04-08T13:46:42Z")
> [@Ray\_P](#): > > This might be a thing that needs to be looked at seperately but +15% dmg buff won’t do them any harm either. That’s true, but at the same time torps are literally malused toward ship of their own size, not to mention rage are double malused. All the other turrets have improve application withing optimal range, but the torps have worse application than cruise. torpedo is 450m ; Cruise is 330m ; It’s a reduction of application by 26% for torp. (explosion speed is almost the same.) look at HAM/HM: HAM : 101 m/s, 125m HM : 85 m/s, 140m. the HAM have an in-built +33% application. LM and rockets: rocket: 150 m/s, 20m. LM : 170 m/s, 40m That’s +76% application for rockets. Why did CCP decide that torpedoes must eat that much crap ? ---
**Author:** ![Mera\_Shimaya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mera_shimaya/32/196691_2.png) [@Mera\_Shimaya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mera_Shimaya)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1452 "2020-04-08T13:48:29Z")
So reading this it appears CCP’s main focus is to advance the cause of PVP at the cost of the PVE community? Isn’t it mainly the PVE community that keeps the economy functioning and aren’t CCP in danger of losing a lot of PVE players? ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1457 "2020-04-08T13:50:07Z")
Not module by module but in aggregate at a rough level yes. Look at the EHP on your current fit. Now turn all amp modules off and look at the EHP. Take the difference between these two numbers, multiply by 0.8 and add it to the EHP with the modules off to get the new EHP with the modules on. ---
**Author:** ![Susurrus\_Synaesthesia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/susurrus_synaesthesia/32/338648_2.png) [@Susurrus\_Synaesthesia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Susurrus_Synaesthesia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1458 "2020-04-08T13:50:27Z")
Supercarriers currently serve no purpose. Not needed for structure bashes - just need a subcap fleet. Then no one will bring supercaps to structure bashes because they can’t hit subcaps now. Can’t use them for ratting - too vulnerable to a small group of bombers or kikis and cannot fight back. They are good at killing other supers, but other supers won’t undock. Titans are good for bridging and that’s about it. They have mentioned creating a niche for supercaps. Maybe they should have done that first. Currently my Nyx is a pretty station spinner. From a psychological perspective. Taking things away from people that take years to optimally train for and cost an enormous amount of most player’s value is a pretty painful loss and I know some people aren’t likely to be as forgiving about it. I’ll still be here, minus a few alts I won’t need anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1461 "2020-04-08T13:51:36Z")
I think you and many others are overstating the impact on pve. We’ve looked at this in corp and it’s probably a 4 to 6% reduction in EHP on fits that are heavily resistance based. Not good but hardly the end of PVE ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1463 "2020-04-08T13:52:32Z")
> [@Susurrus\_Synaesthesia](#): > > They have mentioned creating a niche for supercaps. Maybe they should have done that first. No. Better they just delete the damned things than wait any longer. Supercarriers _right now_ can slaughter everything from bombers to Titans. ---
**Author:** ![Onictus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onictus/32/277200_2.png) [@Onictus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onictus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1465 "2020-04-08T13:53:25Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No. Better they just delete the damned things than wait any longer. Supercarriers _right now_ can slaughter everything from bombers to Titans. That’s odd why do you guys keep coming after supers with bombers then? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1466 "2020-04-08T13:53:29Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > I think you and many others are overstating the impact on pve. We’ve looked at this in corp and it’s probably a 4 to 6% reduction in EHP on fits that are heavily resistance based. Not good but hardly the end of PVE I don’t know how you make your maths. using a single T2 invul will reduce your rep and EHP by 8% on that layer. the highest the resist offered, the closest to 20%. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1469 "2020-04-08T13:54:43Z")
My point being, if you’re randomly ganking things the reward is equivalent to that of blowing up the suspects/bad guys. If you’re willing to put in the effort required to refine your tactics/operations, then yes the rewards can improve (like the majority of activities in this game) but it **is** still dependent on RNG, _and_ you still need people to do stupid things before you can make a profit, _unlike_ PvE activities in this game. Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1470 "2020-04-08T13:54:53Z")
> [@Onictus](#): > > That’s odd why do you guys keep coming after supers with bombers then? The ship being capable doesn’t mean the supercarrier pilot is. I refer you to the wisdom of George Carlin. ---
**Author:** ![Onictus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onictus/32/277200_2.png) [@Onictus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onictus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1471 "2020-04-08T13:56:03Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The ship being capable doesn’t mean the supercarrier pilot is. I refer you to the wisdom of George Carlin. Actually can’t argue that one. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1473 "2020-04-08T13:58:46Z")
I make my maths in pyfa. Take your EHP with all modules on minus your EHP with all modules off. Multiply that by 0.2 and that is your EHP loss due to this change. It’s a loss of 20% of the impact on EHP of your modules, pure and simple. Your maths are wrong. I just grabbed a worm fit I have on pyfa. A 20% hit to the ehp impact of one invul would take my EHP from 9.76k to 9.36k or a reduction of a shade over 4%. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1474 "2020-04-08T14:01:09Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > A 20% hit to the ehp impact of one invul would take my EHP from 9.76k to 9.36k or a reduction of a shade over 4%. Yes because you talk about TOTAL EHP when I talk about LAYER EHP. My math are correct. However I only consider the layer. Because the rep is impacted exactly the same (EHP/s is multiplied by the same value through resists). a single 30% invul (without stacking) literally multiplies your EHP, or EHP/s, by 100/(100-30) = 1.428 a single invul with 24% instead would multiply it by 100/(100-24) = 1.316 the REDUCTION of EHP/ rep is thus 1.316/1.428 = 0.9210 = -8% ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1476 "2020-04-08T14:03:01Z")
Does your ship only have one layer? Mine has 3 and it doesn’t go boom until all three are gone. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1477 "2020-04-08T14:05:18Z")
But nobody cares. The impact of a module that is changed is only on ONE layer. You can tell me that it does not change the signature size too, that will just be as useless. Also **different** ships have **different** values for those layers, you can’t claim an effect since that effect is varying. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1478 "2020-04-08T14:05:49Z")
And by the way, on my worm fit, the reduction in layer EHP if you care is under 6%. It drops from 7.68k to 7.28k. Your math is only true if your base resistance on the layer is zero. For most hulls and most resistances, that’s is not reality. You are overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1479 "2020-04-08T14:06:02Z")
> [@Sentenced\_1989](#): > > So instead of reworking content, you know, to provide different challenge, you nerfed the ships? What is easier and quicker to do, hack through the code/design of all of the various dungeons and hundreds of npc’s or change some numbers in the db that effect all players everywhere in one go. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1480 "2020-04-08T14:06:39Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Your math is only true if your base resistance on the layer is zero. For most hulls and most resistances, that’s is not reality. no it’s not. dude your claim is BS. I made the math, showed you how to get the real value. If you don’t agree with that, explain exactly where . ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1481 "2020-04-08T14:06:45Z")
Of course the effect is varying. But you are describing the worst case and trying to inflate numbers to make a point. Carry on if you must but math is math. ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/1482 "2020-04-08T14:07:30Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > What is easier and quicker to do, hack through the code/design of all of the various dungeons and hundreds of npc’s or change some numbers in the db that effect all players everywhere in one go. So in your world the easiest answer is the best? Well… No i don’t insult you here…i’ll wait until you say something really stupid…will be soon i bet 🙂 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569.md?page=60) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569.md?page=62)